Transcripts For MSNBCW MSNBC Live With Katy Tur 20180727 : v

11 00 a. M. Out west, 2 00 p. M. In washington where the president would like the headlines to be about the economy after good news that the gdp grew by 4. 1 for the Second Quarter. Donald trump took a victory lap on the south lawn of the white house. But it is what he was not willing to discuss this morning that is overshadowing that economic news. Mr. President , is Michael Cohen telling the truth . Is Michael Cohen telling the truth . Mr. President , is Michael Cohen telling the truth . That right there was the voice of my colleague Kristen Welker trying to get answers about the latest in the russia investigation on the heels of a secret recording between donald trump and his longtime lawyer Michael Cohen. Former lawyer, going public. A source now tells nbc news that cohen is willing to inform Robert Mueller, the special counsel investigating alleged russian interference in the 2016 president ial campaign, that donald trump jr. , the president s son, told his father about the 2016 trump tower meeting between don jr. , paul manafort, Jared Kushner and a russian lawyer who said she had dirt on Hillary Clinton. Today there is word that that russian lawyer is tied more closely to the kremlin than she has claimed. The ap is reporting, quote, scores of emails, transcripts, and legal documents paint a portrait of her as a well connected attorney who served as a ghost writer for top russian government lawyers and received assistance from Senior Interior Ministry personnel in a case involving a key client. This morning angry about Michael Cohens latest claim, donald trump fought back on twitter. I did not know of the meeting with my son, don jr. Sounds to me like someone is trying to make up stories in order to get himself out of an unrelated jam. With cohen turning up the heat on his former boss, the daily beast reports that trump allies are already gaming out how to, in the words of one outside advisor, to bury Michael Cohen, to discredit him, and to paint the president s former fixer as a liar. Right now Rudy Giuliani is the one leading that charge. He told cnn cohen has lied all of his life. There is only one problem. Back in may, just two months ago, Rudy Giuliani was saying this about Michael Cohen. No, i expect that he is going to cooperate. I dont think they will be happy because he doesnt have any incriminating evidence about the president or himself. The man is an honest, honorable lawyer. I expected Something Like this from cohen. He has been lying all week, or for two weeks, lying for years. There is nobody that i know that knows him that hasnt warned me if his back is up against the wall, he will lie like crazy, because he lied all his life. Which is true . Is cohen an honest, honorable lawyer or liar . Do we believe the rudy of may or last night . Can we take the president at his word . A man who by the Washington Posts accounts, has made a false or misleading claims has made claims 3,251 times. That was the count as of may 31st. The big question today, who is more credible . Donald trump or Michael Cohen . Joining me now is tom winter, an nbc investigations reporter, a columnist for the daily beast, eli stokols, a White House Reporter for the l. A. Times and joyce vance, a former u. S. Attorney, professor of the Alabama Law School and an msnbc contributor. Joyce, i want to start with you because credibility is everything when it comes to prosecuting a case. Talk to me about the credibility issues that prosecutors are going to face with Michael Cohen and with donald trump. This is a classic sort of a he said he said dispute, and so what prosecutors like to do as they prepare a case is look for evidence that tends to corroborate what their witnesses are saying. There is some reporting that says that cohen has no evidence to back up his willingness to testify in this regard, but there is some circumstantial situations that prosecutors can pursue to try to buttress his testimony. For instance, there is this phone call that don jr. Allegedly made around the time that he had conversations with arissa golorov. They could get phone records. There is the statement donald trump makes two days before this meeting takes place where he promises Something Big coming with the clintons in the future, and then, of course, there is the coverup effort when the meeting comes to light where the president allegedly dictates a statement, trying to claim that the meeting took place for a different reason. The reason it actually occurred. So prosecutors challenge as they look and evaluate the evidence and the credibility of these witnesses will be to find evidence that either crab rates their truthfulness or disproves it. There are a number of cases eli, i will go with you. There are a number of cases where the president has been caught in a lie. A number of times. The donald trump jr. Statement crafted aboard air force one. He said he had nothing to do with it. Now we know that he, not only did he draft it, he was the one dictating that statement. The Washington Post lays out those times he made a false or misleading claim. You know when he lies when he gets on stage when he says things like i have been against the warner rap. We know thats a lie. Its easy to point out all of the lies that donald trump has told. Michael cohen, on the other hand, and while he is somebody that is not generally believed to be very credible if you just talk to people, we dont have a lot of on the record lies from Michael Cohen that we can point to. So when youre talking about a question of credibility, the only one that i can think of with Michael Cohen, and i have racked my brain, and maybe you have one that you have, is telling chris cuomo that he was not recording him in his office when or in that meeting that they had when he was recording them. Credibility within this organization, why would Rudy Giuliani look at Michael Cohen and say he has none of it . Well, because right now Michael Cohen could be very damaging to the president s case, and thats why you see Rudy Giuliani suddenly attacking him. A month or two ago, rudy was saying Michael Cohen was an honorable attorney who had done years of work for donald trump. And so, you know, youre right. Credibility, its all very relative. I am not sure either donald trump or Michael Cohen has impeccable credibility in this matter. I think prosecutors will, as joyce said, be looking for evidence. They are not going to be taking either party just at their word here. And the president , we often say as much as we can, catalog the things that are untrue, that are false. We also often acknowledge that there is some element of truth in the things that he is saying. In the tweet this morning he pointed to Michael Cohens motivations, that he needs to protect himself because he is facing an investigation himself. That is true. He is pointing out the fact that cohen recently hired lanny davis, the attorney formerly for the clintons, a democrat. That is also true. So in the court of public opinion, donald trump is trying to sort of tarnish Michael Cohen and point him out as being motivated, trying to protect himself, getting people to dismiss what he is saying. Obviously, take that with a grain of salt. But i think in terms of just making a mess of this thing for the public, making it harder to follow and both sides kind of going after one another, we have seen that for a long time. I think it does make it increasingly challenging for prosecutors to try and figure out what is spin and what is fact. Lets bring steve bannon into this. Why not . Steve bannon in fire and fury, the chance that don jr. Did not walk these up to his Fathers Office on the 26th floor is zero. Jonathan, you have steve bannon saying this. There is this idea out there that don jr. Always wanted to impress his dad and he wanted to be a part of the campaign and wanted to be seen as somebody who would bring something good to his dad, not to mention this is something they could have used. Donald trump says in a speech after that, a major speech on june 7th, i am going to give a major speech probably monday next week and we are going to be discussing all of the things taking place with the clintons. I think you will find to very informative and interesting. Thats right after the trump tower meeting or right before the trump tower meeting took place but after don jr. Was told there was dirt and they would be having a meeting. The context we have to remember is that this information that set up the meeting that said they had dirt on Hillary Clinton, this did not come over the transom. It came from the family. These are the russians whom donald trump knows best. Socializes with them. Very close to the father. When he goes to moscow, this is the family that he sees. So the idea as steve bannon said, and bannon wasnt there, the idea that they would be bringing material to the trumps and that somehow donald trump wouldnt know that their friends are bringing them this material. It just isnt believable. As far as Michael Cohens credibility goes, to the extent that he was a liar, he was a paid liar on behalf of donald trump. So the lies that he told were all told often at trumps direction or in order to spin in trumps interests. And as far as liars not credible in court, and for Rudy Giuliani to say this is ridiculous. Most of the convictions he got was from mobsters who were lying. Sammy the bull, he was one of the greatest scumbag liars of all time. Can we say that on television . I am not sure. Sorry. We had lanny davis release a piece of evidence. Couldnt have been happy about that. Now this leak. Who knows what it is and who knows where it came from and whether or not it was intended for Robert Muellers benefit, i dont know. How is the sdny taking this . I think based on conversations i have had over the last several days, they are taking it very much in the light of thats great that all these people are making that statement. We are going to do our jobs. And i think the words that have been used with me are slow and deliberate. They are going to take deliberate stoeps to evaluate the evidence they have gotten from the search warrant that went through this special master process now we have been talking about for months and they are going to talk to people based on records that they have, whether they be text messages, emails, financial records, all the things they have been able too get. So they are going to talk to people and say, hey, what did you mean when you sent this . Look at the manafort case. We have five bankers and accountants that have been given use immunity. Who do we talk to here to try to get intent, to try to get information about what was behind this meeting . Any sort of meeting. What was behind this particular payment . Why was money wired here . And they are going to take a lot of time to get that and get it right. They are going to have to go to people. They are going to have to come back to people they have talked to before because whether or not Michael Cohen cooperates in this case or not, they need to establish evidence. They need to establish where people were so that if it is true that Michael Cohen wants to say, hey, donald trump knew about this, this now Infamous Trump tower meeting, they can point to some evidence that says, hey, heres why that backs that up. If one day Michael Cohen is in a courtroom testifying to that fact, they can say, you know what . We know that Michael Cohen was at trump tower the day he says he talked to donald trump and donald trump was there. They have to find that circumstantial evidence that joyce was talking about that can try to corroborate some of these statements because right now these are all statements that are just kind of out there in the ether. Its great to talk about and it makes a lot of hay for us, but at this point its nothing thats going to come into court until they can get a better handle. Joyce, do you want to button it up for us . I think toms exactly right. We are looking at two different categories of proof here. One is courtroom evidence. What could muellers team, what could Southern District of new york use to obtain convictions. We know, or at least many of us believe, myself included, that mueller wont indict a sitting president and ultimately he will write a report that will go up to the hill a. So were also talking about the evidence that mueller might be assembling to put in that report to give the hill evidence that they could use to pursue impeachment proceedings if they choose to. Very different sorts of evidence. Both of them will need to be ironclad. Again, its not just federal investigators. We have an update from senator patri Patrick Leahy saying this. These claims raise important questions. Time for don jr. To come back before the Senate Judiciary committee to answer them, but this time in public under oath. Right now don jr. s lawyer is declining to comment. Tom winter, jonathan alter, eli stokols, joyce vance, thank you vep. And the president s longtime money man has been subpoenaed to appear before the grand jury investigating Michael Cohen. How worried should donald trump be . That is next. And told peoplet geico. harmonica interrupts how they could save 15 or more by. harmonica interrupts . By just calling or going online to geico. Com. harmonica interrupts sighs and chuckles sorry, are you gonna. harmonica interrupts everytime. Geico. 15 minutes could save you 15 or more on car insurance. Where were changing withs . Contemporary makeovers. Then, use the ultimate power handshake, the upper hander with a double palm grab. Who has the upper hand now . Start winning today. Book now at lq. Com. Come hok. , babe. Nasty nighttime heartburn . Try new alkaseltzer pm gummies. The only fast, powerful heartburn relief plus melatonin so you can fall asleep quickly. Oh, what a relief it is . Donald trumps money man is in the spotlight as part of the investigation into his former fixer. The wall street journal reports that Allen Weisselberg, a longtime financial gatekeeper for the president , has been subpoenaed to testify before a federal grand jury in the criminal probe of mr. Trumps former personal lawyer Michael Cohen, according to people familiar with the investigation. Should the president be worried . One former trump employee told me this yesterday. Allen weisselberg knows where all the financial bodies are buried within the Trump Organization. He knows Donald Trumps net worth. Any and every expenditure out of the trump org was approved by allen. Our next guest goes into deeper detail. Weisselberg has worked for the trump family since the 1907s and knows more about the Trump Organizations history and finances. He joined the company after graduating from college and worked for the president s father, fred, as an accountant. He has since become the Trump Organizations chief Financial Officer and one of the president s closest business confidants. Tim obrien is the executive editor of bluoomberg blue. You have written about him extensively. What can you tell us about him . Well, he goes back, he is a legacy Trump Organization employee, and there arent many of those, katy, and he sort of had control of one of two important silos inside the Trump Organization. This is a very small boutique business. Its not a big fortune 500 company. It was really built around a branding and marketing trump himself, and all of the cash in cash out, writing checks, deciding about the financial deals, that came through Allen Weisselberg. And he did it for a very long time. And we now know, i think through these structured payments, to p appears to be involved in masking the money trail. That gets to the part of the way the Trump Organization was run. Its an al mall ga mation of a lot of Trump Companies in which trump gets paid and makes payments. To the extent some of these problems emerge around stormy daniels, or Jennifer Mcdougal karen mcdougal. Karen mcdougal, it pierces the veil on these little Shell Companies and it potentially, if Robert Mueller or the u. S. Attorneys office of the Southern District want to go there or the new York State Attorney general, which is looking at trumps charitable foundation, there is some fairly rich pickings in here. One of the uniting factors around all of this is Second Quarter<\/a>. Donald trump took a victory lap on the south lawn of the white house. But it is what he was not willing to discuss this morning that is overshadowing that economic news. Mr. President , is Michael Cohen<\/a> telling the truth . Is Michael Cohen<\/a> telling the truth . Mr. President , is Michael Cohen<\/a> telling the truth . That right there was the voice of my colleague Kristen Welker<\/a> trying to get answers about the latest in the russia investigation on the heels of a secret recording between donald trump and his longtime lawyer Michael Cohen<\/a>. Former lawyer, going public. A source now tells nbc news that cohen is willing to inform Robert Mueller<\/a>, the special counsel investigating alleged russian interference in the 2016 president ial campaign, that donald trump jr. , the president s son, told his father about the 2016 trump tower meeting between don jr. , paul manafort, Jared Kushner<\/a> and a russian lawyer who said she had dirt on Hillary Clinton<\/a>. Today there is word that that russian lawyer is tied more closely to the kremlin than she has claimed. The ap is reporting, quote, scores of emails, transcripts, and legal documents paint a portrait of her as a well connected attorney who served as a ghost writer for top russian government lawyers and received assistance from Senior Interior Ministry<\/a> personnel in a case involving a key client. This morning angry about Michael Cohen<\/a>s latest claim, donald trump fought back on twitter. I did not know of the meeting with my son, don jr. Sounds to me like someone is trying to make up stories in order to get himself out of an unrelated jam. With cohen turning up the heat on his former boss, the daily beast reports that trump allies are already gaming out how to, in the words of one outside advisor, to bury Michael Cohen<\/a>, to discredit him, and to paint the president s former fixer as a liar. Right now Rudy Giuliani<\/a> is the one leading that charge. He told cnn cohen has lied all of his life. There is only one problem. Back in may, just two months ago, Rudy Giuliani<\/a> was saying this about Michael Cohen<\/a>. No, i expect that he is going to cooperate. I dont think they will be happy because he doesnt have any incriminating evidence about the president or himself. The man is an honest, honorable lawyer. I expected Something Like<\/a> this from cohen. He has been lying all week, or for two weeks, lying for years. There is nobody that i know that knows him that hasnt warned me if his back is up against the wall, he will lie like crazy, because he lied all his life. Which is true . Is cohen an honest, honorable lawyer or liar . Do we believe the rudy of may or last night . Can we take the president at his word . A man who by the Washington Post<\/a>s accounts, has made a false or misleading claims has made claims 3,251 times. That was the count as of may 31st. The big question today, who is more credible . Donald trump or Michael Cohen<\/a> . Joining me now is tom winter, an nbc investigations reporter, a columnist for the daily beast, eli stokols, a White House Reporter<\/a> for the l. A. Times and joyce vance, a former u. S. Attorney, professor of the Alabama Law School<\/a> and an msnbc contributor. Joyce, i want to start with you because credibility is everything when it comes to prosecuting a case. Talk to me about the credibility issues that prosecutors are going to face with Michael Cohen<\/a> and with donald trump. This is a classic sort of a he said he said dispute, and so what prosecutors like to do as they prepare a case is look for evidence that tends to corroborate what their witnesses are saying. There is some reporting that says that cohen has no evidence to back up his willingness to testify in this regard, but there is some circumstantial situations that prosecutors can pursue to try to buttress his testimony. For instance, there is this phone call that don jr. Allegedly made around the time that he had conversations with arissa golorov. They could get phone records. There is the statement donald trump makes two days before this meeting takes place where he promises Something Big<\/a> coming with the clintons in the future, and then, of course, there is the coverup effort when the meeting comes to light where the president allegedly dictates a statement, trying to claim that the meeting took place for a different reason. The reason it actually occurred. So prosecutors challenge as they look and evaluate the evidence and the credibility of these witnesses will be to find evidence that either crab rates their truthfulness or disproves it. There are a number of cases eli, i will go with you. There are a number of cases where the president has been caught in a lie. A number of times. The donald trump jr. Statement crafted aboard air force one. He said he had nothing to do with it. Now we know that he, not only did he draft it, he was the one dictating that statement. The Washington Post<\/a> lays out those times he made a false or misleading claim. You know when he lies when he gets on stage when he says things like i have been against the warner rap. We know thats a lie. Its easy to point out all of the lies that donald trump has told. Michael cohen, on the other hand, and while he is somebody that is not generally believed to be very credible if you just talk to people, we dont have a lot of on the record lies from Michael Cohen<\/a> that we can point to. So when youre talking about a question of credibility, the only one that i can think of with Michael Cohen<\/a>, and i have racked my brain, and maybe you have one that you have, is telling chris cuomo that he was not recording him in his office when or in that meeting that they had when he was recording them. Credibility within this organization, why would Rudy Giuliani<\/a> look at Michael Cohen<\/a> and say he has none of it . Well, because right now Michael Cohen<\/a> could be very damaging to the president s case, and thats why you see Rudy Giuliani<\/a> suddenly attacking him. A month or two ago, rudy was saying Michael Cohen<\/a> was an honorable attorney who had done years of work for donald trump. And so, you know, youre right. Credibility, its all very relative. I am not sure either donald trump or Michael Cohen<\/a> has impeccable credibility in this matter. I think prosecutors will, as joyce said, be looking for evidence. They are not going to be taking either party just at their word here. And the president , we often say as much as we can, catalog the things that are untrue, that are false. We also often acknowledge that there is some element of truth in the things that he is saying. In the tweet this morning he pointed to Michael Cohen<\/a>s motivations, that he needs to protect himself because he is facing an investigation himself. That is true. He is pointing out the fact that cohen recently hired lanny davis, the attorney formerly for the clintons, a democrat. That is also true. So in the court of public opinion, donald trump is trying to sort of tarnish Michael Cohen<\/a> and point him out as being motivated, trying to protect himself, getting people to dismiss what he is saying. Obviously, take that with a grain of salt. But i think in terms of just making a mess of this thing for the public, making it harder to follow and both sides kind of going after one another, we have seen that for a long time. I think it does make it increasingly challenging for prosecutors to try and figure out what is spin and what is fact. Lets bring steve bannon into this. Why not . Steve bannon in fire and fury, the chance that don jr. Did not walk these up to his Fathers Office<\/a> on the 26th floor is zero. Jonathan, you have steve bannon saying this. There is this idea out there that don jr. Always wanted to impress his dad and he wanted to be a part of the campaign and wanted to be seen as somebody who would bring something good to his dad, not to mention this is something they could have used. Donald trump says in a speech after that, a major speech on june 7th, i am going to give a major speech probably monday next week and we are going to be discussing all of the things taking place with the clintons. I think you will find to very informative and interesting. Thats right after the trump tower meeting or right before the trump tower meeting took place but after don jr. Was told there was dirt and they would be having a meeting. The context we have to remember is that this information that set up the meeting that said they had dirt on Hillary Clinton<\/a>, this did not come over the transom. It came from the family. These are the russians whom donald trump knows best. Socializes with them. Very close to the father. When he goes to moscow, this is the family that he sees. So the idea as steve bannon said, and bannon wasnt there, the idea that they would be bringing material to the trumps and that somehow donald trump wouldnt know that their friends are bringing them this material. It just isnt believable. As far as Michael Cohen<\/a>s credibility goes, to the extent that he was a liar, he was a paid liar on behalf of donald trump. So the lies that he told were all told often at trumps direction or in order to spin in trumps interests. And as far as liars not credible in court, and for Rudy Giuliani<\/a> to say this is ridiculous. Most of the convictions he got was from mobsters who were lying. Sammy the bull, he was one of the greatest scumbag liars of all time. Can we say that on television . I am not sure. Sorry. We had lanny davis release a piece of evidence. Couldnt have been happy about that. Now this leak. Who knows what it is and who knows where it came from and whether or not it was intended for Robert Muellers<\/a> benefit, i dont know. How is the sdny taking this . I think based on conversations i have had over the last several days, they are taking it very much in the light of thats great that all these people are making that statement. We are going to do our jobs. And i think the words that have been used with me are slow and deliberate. They are going to take deliberate stoeps to evaluate the evidence they have gotten from the search warrant that went through this special master process now we have been talking about for months and they are going to talk to people based on records that they have, whether they be text messages, emails, financial records, all the things they have been able too get. So they are going to talk to people and say, hey, what did you mean when you sent this . Look at the manafort case. We have five bankers and accountants that have been given use immunity. Who do we talk to here to try to get intent, to try to get information about what was behind this meeting . Any sort of meeting. What was behind this particular payment . Why was money wired here . And they are going to take a lot of time to get that and get it right. They are going to have to go to people. They are going to have to come back to people they have talked to before because whether or not Michael Cohen<\/a> cooperates in this case or not, they need to establish evidence. They need to establish where people were so that if it is true that Michael Cohen<\/a> wants to say, hey, donald trump knew about this, this now Infamous Trump<\/a> tower meeting, they can point to some evidence that says, hey, heres why that backs that up. If one day Michael Cohen<\/a> is in a courtroom testifying to that fact, they can say, you know what . We know that Michael Cohen<\/a> was at trump tower the day he says he talked to donald trump and donald trump was there. They have to find that circumstantial evidence that joyce was talking about that can try to corroborate some of these statements because right now these are all statements that are just kind of out there in the ether. Its great to talk about and it makes a lot of hay for us, but at this point its nothing thats going to come into court until they can get a better handle. Joyce, do you want to button it up for us . I think toms exactly right. We are looking at two different categories of proof here. One is courtroom evidence. What could muellers team, what could Southern District<\/a> of new york use to obtain convictions. We know, or at least many of us believe, myself included, that mueller wont indict a sitting president and ultimately he will write a report that will go up to the hill a. So were also talking about the evidence that mueller might be assembling to put in that report to give the hill evidence that they could use to pursue impeachment proceedings if they choose to. Very different sorts of evidence. Both of them will need to be ironclad. Again, its not just federal investigators. We have an update from senator patri Patrick Leahy<\/a> saying this. These claims raise important questions. Time for don jr. To come back before the Senate Judiciary<\/a> committee to answer them, but this time in public under oath. Right now don jr. s lawyer is declining to comment. Tom winter, jonathan alter, eli stokols, joyce vance, thank you vep. And the president s longtime money man has been subpoenaed to appear before the grand jury investigating Michael Cohen<\/a>. How worried should donald trump be . That is next. And told peoplet geico. harmonica interrupts how they could save 15 or more by. harmonica interrupts . By just calling or going online to geico. Com. harmonica interrupts sighs and chuckles sorry, are you gonna. harmonica interrupts everytime. Geico. 15 minutes could save you 15 or more on car insurance. Where were changing withs . Contemporary makeovers. Then, use the ultimate power handshake, the upper hander with a double palm grab. Who has the upper hand now . Start winning today. Book now at lq. Com. Come hok. , babe. Nasty nighttime heartburn . Try new alkaseltzer pm gummies. The only fast, powerful heartburn relief plus melatonin so you can fall asleep quickly. Oh, what a relief it is . Donald trumps money man is in the spotlight as part of the investigation into his former fixer. The wall street journal reports that Allen Weisselberg<\/a>, a longtime financial gatekeeper for the president , has been subpoenaed to testify before a federal grand jury in the criminal probe of mr. Trumps former personal lawyer Michael Cohen<\/a>, according to people familiar with the investigation. Should the president be worried . One former trump employee told me this yesterday. Allen weisselberg knows where all the financial bodies are buried within the Trump Organization<\/a>. He knows Donald Trumps<\/a> net worth. Any and every expenditure out of the trump org was approved by allen. Our next guest goes into deeper detail. Weisselberg has worked for the trump family since the 1907s and knows more about the Trump Organization<\/a>s history and finances. He joined the company after graduating from college and worked for the president s father, fred, as an accountant. He has since become the Trump Organization<\/a>s chief Financial Officer<\/a> and one of the president s closest business confidants. Tim obrien is the executive editor of bluoomberg blue. You have written about him extensively. What can you tell us about him . Well, he goes back, he is a legacy Trump Organization<\/a> employee, and there arent many of those, katy, and he sort of had control of one of two important silos inside the Trump Organization<\/a>. This is a very small boutique business. Its not a big fortune 500 company. It was really built around a branding and marketing trump himself, and all of the cash in cash out, writing checks, deciding about the financial deals, that came through Allen Weisselberg<\/a>. And he did it for a very long time. And we now know, i think through these structured payments, to p appears to be involved in masking the money trail. That gets to the part of the way the Trump Organization<\/a> was run. Its an al mall ga mation of a lot of Trump Companies<\/a> in which trump gets paid and makes payments. To the extent some of these problems emerge around stormy daniels, or Jennifer Mcdougal<\/a> karen mcdougal. Karen mcdougal, it pierces the veil on these little Shell Companies<\/a> and it potentially, if Robert Mueller<\/a> or the u. S. Attorneys office of the Southern District<\/a> want to go there or the new York State Attorney<\/a> general, which is looking at trumps charitable foundation, there is some fairly rich pickings in here. One of the uniting factors around all of this is Allen Weisselberg<\/a>. He was on the board of the charity. Hes in and out of all of these accounts, and as your source told you, and i think its completely spot on, he knows where all the financial bodies are buried. What does that mean, he knows where all the financial bodes a bodies are buried . Does that assume guilt . Of course, that statement assumes guilt. Thats how your source characterized it. However, if we were to simply back away from that, there is some pretty interesting Unanswered Questions<\/a> about the Trump Organization<\/a>s finances over the last decade. Theyve made a lot of purchases for what they say is in cash. They said they didnt finance those purchases through bank loans. They didnt finance them through selling off company businesses. They spent about 400 million of what they said is their own money. Eric trump has described it as such. In the midst of that they had projects like the trump soho hotel, which was a boondoggle that had money from it from Eastern Europe<\/a> and career criminals in it. If Robert Mueller<\/a> gets into his finances, he said he would see it as a red line. You write in this piece, Allen Weisselberg<\/a> going to a grand jury potentially brings muellers probe into the president s wallet. This would likely bother the president. Tim . You know, its interesting to me how often he hits the collusion thing. There is no collusion, there is no collusion, he really harps on collusion, and i think thats shrewd because i think the collusion issues are the least perilous to him. You go up a grade when you get into obstruction of justice. When you get into policy favors for financial quid pro quos around lifting economic sanctions on russia, that begins to reach into high crimes and misdemeanors, and there are much bigger potential threats for the president around his finances, i think, than anything else. I think he is aware of that. Is that what we will see this week, this the thing that tied together the stories about the alleged affairs and the personal life. Is this what ties that together with the mueller probe, had potentially reaching, this opening to reach into the Trump Organization<\/a> and see how things operated . I have no idea. I think we know that there is at least two legs to muellers investigation. There is a collusion component, and there is definitely an obstruction of justice component. We dont know from that mueller himself. I think that information is coming out from various defendants who are caught up in this. I think there is another piece that we really dont know a lot about yet, but it certainly involves a look at his business dealings and his finances, but its anybodys guess as to where that will go. You always get more credibility when you are willing to say i have no idea. I will say that any time. Its easier. We will get your title right now. With bloomberg opinion. Thanks so much. Thanks. And russia is at it again. Hackers have already targeted at least one Vulnerable Senate<\/a> democrat. What the feds are doing about it next. Dear greatgreat grandfather, you made moonshine in a backwoods still. Smuggled booze and dodged the law. Even when they brought you in, they could never hold you down. When i built my family tree and found you, i found my sense of adventure. I set off on a new life, a million miles away. Im heidi choiniere, and this is my ancestry story. Now with over 10 billion historical records, discover your story. Get started for free at ancestry. 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No a Foreign Government<\/a> you know what gives me more pause . That a person in our government, crooked Hillary Clinton<\/a> be quiet. I know you want to save her. That a person in our government, katy, would delete or get rid of 33,000 emails. That gives me a big problem. After she gets a subpoena. She gets subpoenaed and she gets rid of 33,000 emails. That gives me a problem. If russia or china or any other country has those emails, i mean, to be honest with you, i would love to see them. Happy anniversary to that infamous exchange. Russia, if you are listening, its two years old today. Two things have not changed. One, the investigation into why donald trump said that and what he did or did not know about russian meddling is still ongoing, and, two, russia is still meddling. Earlier this week the president tweeted he was, quote, very concerned that russia will be fighting hard to have an impact on the upcoming election based on the fact that no president has been tougher on russia than me. They will be pushing hard for the democrats. They definitely dont want trump. Yes, they are still trying hard to have an impact on the upcoming election. No, it is not on behalf of the democrats. As tthe daily beast reported, hackers have targeted at least one Vulnerable Senate<\/a> democrat running for reelection. Missouri senator clare make haskill. In a statement, she confirmed the attack. While this attack was not successful, it is outrageous that they think they can get away with this. I will not be intimidated. I have said it before and i will say it again. Putin is a thug and a bully. In about 30 minutes at the white house, the president will meet in the situation room with his National Security<\/a> council to talk about election security. Will this come up . Will the threat of russian interference be on the agenda . Kend delaney is the intelligence and National Security<\/a> report for nbc news. A congressional reporter for the daily beast. He shares the byline on that report. David hickton is the founding director of the institute for cyberlaw, policy, and security at the university of pittsburgh. He also served as u. S. Attorney during the obama administration. I want to start with you, andrew. You guys right, the attempt against make haskills office was a variant of the password stealing technique used by russias socalled fancy hackers against john podesta in 2016. Tell us what they did. Thats right, katy. What they did was they tried to replicate what they did to john po te podesta in 2016. He was hillarys campaign chairman. They targeted senator make haskills office such that it sent links that look like an authentic email from microsoft saying you needed to change your password and then it brought them to a page that looked ex t exactly like the microsoft portal where you change your password. If the individual followed that prompt and typed in their password, that gave those Russian Hackers<\/a> basically a way to infiltrate that computer system. There was no evidence to believe that the hack was successful and senator make haskills office later confirmed that portion. Again this is the first concrete evidence that we have that we were able to reveal here of russian interference in the 2018 midterms. And what tipped you off to this . So a couple weeks ago, or i guess last week at the aspen security forum, a top microsoft executive was talking about a few candidates that microsoft had picked up in terms of candidates that are standing for election this year that were targeted in these sort of what are called phishing operations. So we went to work to try to find out who exactly it was, and microsoft had identified that this was whats called a fancy bear operation within the russian gru, and we were able to identify it was senator make haskills office. Ken, is there any indication this will come up at that National Security<\/a> meeting . Can you give us an update on where the federal government stands in its ability to thwart this sort of meddling again in 2018 . Sure. I just wrote a piece on it which is posted on msnbc news. Com. This attempted attack of clare make haskill is an example of the notion that russia has not been deterred in the least. What experts and lawmakers say is the reason they havent been deterred is there has been no president ial leadership in the two years since our government was attacked, our democracy was attacked by russia. After 9 11 the u. S. Government reorganized to prevent such attack from happening again. There has been no such movement in the wake of an attack that some lawmakers, including john mccain, said was an act of war. There have been individual efforts by agencies, dhs working with the states, the fbi has a Foreign Influence Task<\/a> force, the nsa is stepping up its game in cyberspace. Absent white house leadership, you are not going to get the approach you need. For example, tackling the meddling on social media by russian bots and trolls is a hard problem for the government. No one agency can do it. It involves the social media involves, the First Amendment<\/a> issues. Without president ial leadership, its really unlikely you will have a government approach that even comes close to solving that problem. Two things. The july 27th sound bite we played at the top of this, russia, if you are listening, we know from the mueller indictment that that was the very first time that the conspirators named tried to hack into Hillary Clinton<\/a>s server. It is also interesting to note that this mahack happened aroun the same time that donald trump was in springfield, missouri campaigning on behalf of mchaskills opponent. Listen to what he said. Its ominous to consider that the same russian actors may have been involved in trying to hack a vulnerable Democratic Senators<\/a> campaign right around the same time that President Trump<\/a> called for her ouster from the senate. But what is also distressing to me is the Ranking Member<\/a> on the Intelligence Committee<\/a> is to learn our savvy viewers may notice that is adam schiff and not donald trump. I dont know if we have the sound bites. I will read it. We must lower our taxes and your senator, she must do this for you. If she doesnt, you have to vote her out of office. The attack happened around the same time that donald trump said that in missouri. David, do you believe in coincidences, could that be a coincidence . No, it is not hard to start to see a pattern of lining up the sequence of events with the campaign and since the campaign. And to pick up kens point, i really believe to put specifics to what we need in the leadership arena, we need a new tone from the president and we need a plan. Our adversary is Vladimir Putin<\/a>. The president needs to sharp on his focus on that target and stop talking about the special prosecutor, stop talking about the Deputy Attorney<\/a> general, and stop attacking law enforcement. And the plan we need is to remove the disarray that currently exists in this administration in the cyberarena. They have removed tom bossart and rob joyce. There is nobody watching the store. We need a central plan. We need the president to clearly express this is a priority to separate his personal interests from the nations interests here, and then what we need as far as im concerned is an investigativebased approach with Central Organization<\/a> and a lot of activity out in field, and we widen the number of forums where we can bring these cases, whether its a courtroom in a trade discussion with the state department, commerce treasury, and the like. We need to put consequence into the equation for the russians. Ken, this apparently didnt work, this attack on mccaskill. Nobody clicked on the link. What is the feeling about that . Is that lucky that nobody clicked on the link, that they werent duped by it . Do they feel like they are in a good position to make sure that nobody else would click on Something Like<\/a> this . Absolutely not, katy. You cant defend against phishing. Somebody is always going to click on a bad link. Dan coats gave a remarkable speech where he said the system is blinking red. We are not seeing the kind of cyberintrusions massively against election systems that we saw in 2016, but we are a keystroke away from that. Its easy for the russians to do that. Its very hard to defend against it. Thats why you need a geopolitical strategy. Let me make sure our viewers understand what david just said. The Trump Administration<\/a> has eliminated the role of cybersecurity coordinator. His name was rob joyce, from the National Security<\/a> council. They fired tom bassert, his super. There is nobody minding the store. We cant get the Trump Administration<\/a> to tell us who is in charge of preventing foreign election interference. Perhaps after this meeting. We will see. Thanks for pointing that out. We appreciate it. In a move that surprised even his own director of national intelligence, the Trump White House<\/a> announced last week that donald trump had invited Vladimir Putin<\/a> to washington. Despite the questions that remained about what happened in helsinki when the two leaders met one on one, despite the criticism the president fielded about that summit from members of his own party. But by the middle of that week, the white house abruptly rescinded the invitation. National security advisor john bolton issued a statement saying the followup would not take place until, as he said, the russia witch hunt is over. It appears that putin has an alternate plan in mind. He announced today that calls between washington and moscow just are not enough. He invited donald trump to come to him. And it appears the white house may rsvp yes. Sarah Huckabee Sanders<\/a> issued a statement saying trump is open to visiting moscow. Im joined by chief Foreign Correspondent<\/a> Richard Engle<\/a> and former House Intel Committee<\/a> staffer and Vice President<\/a> of the National Security<\/a> program at third way. Richard, last i heard from Vladimir Putin<\/a>, he said his schedule was too full to come to washington. What explains this new information and potentially this new trip . Well, i think this should be surprising to absolutely no one. Vladimir putin got a lot out of that helsinki summit. He looked like a hero back home. He looked like the dominant force. President trump got into all sorts of domestic problems back home, which is only good for russia because the more the u. S. Is tangled up in knots, the more russia feels it has a freehand in the world. He thought he would follow that up to a visit to the United States<\/a>, which would be a crowning moment for putin to have this president invielt him to washington. When that got complicated, he came out and said, why dont you come to moscow . If you could imagine the optics of what that visit would be like having President Trump<\/a> walking the honor guard, receiving some sort of ceremonial present from Vladimir Putin<\/a>, and then all of the backlash that would follow in the United States<\/a>. It would be a very, very appealing prospect for russia and por putin. Richard, this donald trump is far from the only president , if he goes, to visit moscow. This wouldnt be a first. It certainly wouldnt be a first. But you cant look at whats happening in the world and view it in isolation. There have been many president s who have met with russian leaders. There is nothing wrong with that. But you have a president who is consistently accused of cozying up to Vladimir Putin<\/a>, allowing russia to have a pass when it comes to Election Hacking<\/a>. So it is not like other summits. Of course, president s need to talk. President s need to talk with their allies and their adversaries. But the optics a visit like this would give to russia would be something that i think russia would absolutely enjoy. Not saying the visit shouldnt happen. Its not up to me if the visit should happen or not, but i can tell you right now the russians would absolutely love it, and it is not a surprise at all that Vladimir Putin<\/a> extended this offer. The russians would leave it. The president potentially likes it, as we saw from sarah Huckabee Sanders<\/a> statement. Mika, how would the Intelligence Community<\/a> feel about a meeting like this . They would be very concerned about it. Its really troubling because these are meetings that are entirely about optics. Its not clear what the substantive agenda is not only of the meeting that putin is inviting trump to, but what actually happened in the meeting in helsinki. We have the secretary of state refusing to tell the United States<\/a> senators about what had happened in that oneonone conversation. President s dont just get together at the head of state level to have a chat. They usually have a very substantive agenda and are trying to address issues in americas National Security<\/a> concern. In this case, there is no substance. It is just about the optics. Yesterday, secretary of state mike pompeo, or two daze ago, testified in front of congress. He didnt give a lot of answers as to what happened in that meeting or whats going on with north korea. Whats going on with the communication between this administration and the intel community, but also between lawmakers . Is it usually is there tushl usually this much of a wall between them . No, its not at all normal this would happen. Normally, the Intelligence Community<\/a> would have someone in the room with the president as the president is talking to a head of state. They would know what was going on. There would be a clear agenda going in. There would be a robust debriefing coming out. Then they would give direction to the rest of the government based on what the two leaders decided. None of that is happening. So whatever this president agreed upon with Vladimir Putin<\/a>, they cannot possibility alkt upon it because no one in the government knows what it is. And the United States<\/a> congress has an absolute right to oversee the policy decisions that are made by the executive branch. For them to be kept in the dark is keeping the American People<\/a> in the dark. Its just not right. Richard, russia is still meddling. We just had a report in the last segment about Claire Mccaskill<\/a> being targeted. The president has waffled on whether he thinks russia meddled and whether they will be still meddling. You have been to russia a lot. You have done a lot of reporting out there. Can you give me some insight into how they are feeling about what happened in 2016 and what that could mean Going Forward<\/a> . The russians are feeling very confident right now, and they have been accused of meddling not just in the u. S. Election, but in several european countries, in countries closer to their own borders. They are feeling that this is a strategy that has been working for them and they havent really paid any price for it. So why not continue it . Russia also right now seems very much to be focused on the long game. And if you look at russia in history, they had 400 years czars. Seven years of totalitarian communism. Then the collapse of the soviet union, and for the last 20 years Vladimir Putin<\/a> and the intelligence agencies have been in power. They have one goal in mind, which is to recover from the collapse of the soviet union. They believe that President Trump<\/a> can help them do that. They believe that Election Hacking<\/a> and manipulation is a tool that can help them achieve that. They are feeling very strong. One other question. Im thinking about the indictment that mueller released a couple weeks ago, the 12 russian Intelligence Officers<\/a> they are saying were behind the 2016 election attack. Is there any separation . What is the separation between Intelligence Officers<\/a> in russia and Vladimir Putin<\/a> . Well, Vladimir Putin<\/a> ran the Intelligence Services<\/a>. When he took over the government, the Intelligence Services<\/a> came with him. Many people describe the current kremlin as being run by putin and the Intelligence Services<\/a>. So the fact that the gru, the military intelligence unit, named officers, named locations, several named locations in the indictment, were responsible for the actual hacking, the actual penetration of the dnc servers, that shows, according to the indictment, that this was a staterun operation, that this wasnt the act of some lone computer geeks who were penetrating Electoral Systems<\/a> for fun, that this was National Strategy<\/a> in order to have a result. And the fact that even russia, they deny it, but they have been denying it with a bit of a wink and a nod. They said they were never involved, but they kind of like the world to know that they did it because that gives them power. That gives them prestige. That gives them a sense that they have returned again and vindicated themselves after the horrific collapse of the soviet union. Which makes it weird to hear the president say Vladimir Putin<\/a> denied it very strongly. Richard engle, thank you very much. Mi mika oyang, good to see you. Next up, could donald trump win again in 2020 . My next guess says yes and he will explain how. With best inclass towing best inclass payload and best inclass torque the f150 lineup has the capability to get big things to big places bigtime. And things just got bigger. F150 is now motor trends 2018 truck of the year. This is the new 2018 ford f150. It doesnt just raise the bar, pal. It is the bar. Theres also a lot to know. 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Theres a lot of innovation that goes into making americas 1 shave. Precision machinery and highquality materials from around the world. Nobody else even comes close. Now starting at 7. 99. Gillette. The best a man can get. After a rather trying week, President Trump<\/a> had some good news to share today. The gdp grew an impressive 4. 1 in the Second Quarter<\/a> of 2018. The president wasted no time taking credit for it. Since i was elected, weve created approximately 7 trillion of new wealth. The year before i came into office, private Business Investment<\/a> grew at only 1. 8 . Last year it jumped to 6. 3 . This year its growing at 9. 4 . So thats a very tremendous increase. There hasnt been an increase like that in many, many years, decades. A bit of hyperbole there, but to the president s credit, the economy is doing well. According to an oped from Bret Stephens<\/a> with november 4th 2020 the president s reelection will be simple. Its the economy, stupid. Bret stephens, opinion columnist for the New York Times<\/a> and msnbc contributor joins me now. I thought your column was completely fascinating because it seems completely plausible. Yeah, it was one of those columns that was very easy to write because you can map the president s reelection unemployed sibling just got a job, thats whats going to matter. I fear that democrats are adopting precisely the wrong strategy if they want to unseat this president. So in this column, and again for our viewers, this is you predicting the future, making it up. Its not real. But you predicted an Elizabeth Warren<\/a> Sherrod Brown<\/a> ticket that focuses more on morality. The morality of this president and the outrages that he has perpetrated and less on the economy. You say in exit poll interviews, and again this is fictitious, mr. Trumps supporters cited the state of the economy to explain their vote. What part of dow 30,000 do the liberals not understand, Kevin Oreilly<\/a> of manchester, new hampshire, told the times. Again, thats a fake quote, but it sounds plausible. I dont know if you or how many of our viewers remember the 1996 election. But bob dole was going around saying where is the outrage in america . Wheres the outrage . Well, you have this robust a robust economy and americans feeling pretty good. And this was a president bil facing some serious morality charges. All kinds of financial issues. Not quite the same as what were saying today, we should point out. No, thats a whole different sport, you might say. But it was felt that way at the time. So i think democrats may be donald trump may be doing what doing his greatest disservice, which is he may be making democrats lose their marbles. If democrats are going to win, they need message focus, they need an optimistic strategy for the American People<\/a>, and they need to show that theyre not just interested in humiliating trump, theyre interested in making things better for america. Why would a democrat listen to Bret Stephens<\/a>, conservative columnist . I know how conservatives think and ive seen many of these elections before. One of the reasons im at the New York Times<\/a>, im a never trumper. You came from the wall street journal. I do not want to see donald trump reelected. I want to make america sane advice. Please, democrats, dont talk yourself off a cliff. Dont bank on bad news. Dont laugh at sunshine. Get some message focus and get a serious person whos going to talk to middle class aspirations. Dont impeach . Dont impeach. Bret stephens, New York Times<\/a> columnist. Read that article or that fictitious article, i should say. Its really interesting. Bret, thank you. We will be right back. 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Then we connect you to our team of media experts, who are ready to help you maximize your budget while elevating your advertising effectiveness. Sounds like an advertising opportunity knocking. Visit comcastspotlight. Com today. One more thing before we go. Remember Don Blankenship<\/a> . After serving a year in prison following an explosion in one of his mines, the coal baron decided his next step should be to run for joe manchins senate seat in west virginia. He had ads like this. Trump has created millions of jobs for mining people. Mitchs china family has given him tens of millions of dollars. And this. Politicians are running a lot of kracrazy ads. They blew up the coal mine and put me in prison. Now theyre running ads saying the coal mine blew up and i went to prison. One of my goals as u. S. Senator will be to ditch cocaine mitch. Look how he pops. Hes got it. Blankenship lost the republican primary back in may. He placed third behind Patrick Morrisey<\/a> and evan jenkins. Earlier this week he filed the paperwork to run as a thirdparty candidate. The state denied his bid. West virginia has a sore loser law which prevents failed candidates from running as a third party. Blankenship railed against the decision. He used the word establishment five times. He wanted his senate bid to rise like a phoenix from the political ashes, like that tattoo that ben affleck has across his back. Blankenship says hes going to take the issue to court. While that effort is not likely to succeed, so we are left with the immortal words of cocaine m mitch himself. Thanks for playing, don. Kristen welker picks things up right now. Kristen, look at us, were primary colors. Primary colors on another busy friday, katy. We never get a break. What happened to summer fridays . We should go into publishing and get half a day off. They dont exist in this business. Good afternoon, i am Kristen Welker<\/a> in for ali velshi. I did not know, thats what President Trump<\/a> is saying after new reports that longtime lawyer and fixer Michael Cohen<\/a> is willing to inform special counsel Robert Mueller<\/a> that trump knew about that Infamous Trump<\/a> tower meeting before it took place. The president lashed out in a series of tweets dismissing not only the report but also cohen. Last night the president s attorney, Rudy Giuliani<\/a>, was on the attack, slamming cohens credibility. I expected Something Like<\/a> this from cohen. 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