congressional ally demands a briefing. trying to create stone a victim here. >> show of force to try to depict me as public enemy number one. >> an nbc report, russian hackers are using documents they claim to have stolen from robert mueller to try and discredit the special counsel's investigation. the art of the deal no more. fox conn apparently back pedaling on their plans to build a factory in wisconsin. this after receiving record tax breaks and a ringing endorsement from the president. >> this is a great day for america. the eighth wonder of the world. this is the eighth wonder of the world. >> and in the era of me too, is the fear of being accused of harassment or worse a fair excuse for male executives now saying they will avoid mentoring women in the workplace? >> we begin with the president and top republicans questioning last friday's raid at roger stone's race. the answer might be in court papers filed before the raid went down. first, let's give you a quick explanation of what we're talking about. president trump and lindsey graham would have you believe that the fbi was out of line when they sent agents to arrest roger stone. mr. stone told the daily caller it was a very disappointing scene and said he might ask for a review of the fbi's tactics. senate judiciary committee chair graham went even further, asking fbi director chris wray to brief his committee on the raid including the number of agents the tactics and the specific timing. to review, 6:00 a.m. friday morning at least a dozen armed fbi agents came to stone's house, knocked on the door and ordered him to surrender. to shots were fired. there's been a suggestion that the fbi did not need the show of force. it could have asked stone to turn himself in. look at his filing from last thursday. the day before the raid took place. it says robert mueller was worried that letting anyone know what was coming would, quote, increase the risk of the defendant fleeing and destroying or tampering with evidence. now remember that part of the reason stone was indicted in the first place was that because he made, quote, multiple false statements to a house committee. those are lies. about his interactions regarding wikileaks and falsely denied possessing records that contain evidence of these very interactions. if mueller was worried stone would destroy those records he had previously denied having, that could explain the raid. these tactics, they're not completely out of the ordinary for the fbi or even the mueller investigation. remember, agencies, documents and other materials in early morning raid on paul manmanafor home in 2018. in both catioses, investigators said they didn't believe the men could be trusted to hand over records. kristen welker at the white house. the president could be complaining on twitter and anywhere else. or he could be putting forth an actual investigation, a file, to look into how this happened. >> the white house hasn't clarified yet whether president trump is serious about that. what we do know is that his language about the roger stone arrest certainly fits into a broader pattern that we've seen from this president when it comes to special counsel's investigation into russian meddling. he frequently lashes out, as you well know, as you have covered extensively. i want to underscore that point you made. we did so much reporting on this in recent days, the fact that law enforcement officials agree, look, if you look at the legal documents that were filed, it explains why that raid was carried out. because there was concern that he might try to cover up or in some ways destroy evidence. that's sort of the legal perspective as president trump continues to take aim. the president also making headlines in that interview that you mentioned by saying that he is going to let the justice department determine how to handle the findings of the mueller report. that's significant, coming on the heels of whitaker indicating perhaps this could wrap up soon. also saying if he want to shut this down, he could have. again, under scoring the sort of aggressive tone president trump has taken. what is he talking about today? not the special counsel investigation but a topic i know interests you a lot. the fact that chinese officials are here having high level talking. ahead of that march 1st deadline. this is the president's tweets. one of them in a series. china's representatives and i are trying to do a complete deal. all of the many problems are being discussed and will be hopefully resolved. tariffs on china increased to 25% on march 1. so all working hard to complete by that date. president trump will be meeting with the vice premier of china later on today. a lot of pressure on these talks. folks throughout the country, particularly farmers, concerned about the increase of those tariffs. what it's doing to the trade market. then of course he's tweeting about the wall. saying a wall is a wall. as bipartisan negotiators are trying to hammer out a deal trying to keep the government open. >> talk is very important. it's also cheap. we'll believe it when we see it. i want to bring my panel in. former rnc chairman michael steele. former fork democrnew york demo congressman joe raleigh. the argument we're hearing from the white house, this raid was for show, if roger stone had anything left in his house, he would have destroyed it. >> i don't think we can say this arrest -- i object to the characterization of raid. because this was an arrest. >> what's the difference? >> i think a raid -- we think of a s.w.a.t. team going in an unanticipated way, responding to a situation. raid is not a legal term of art. it's important for viewers to know this was an arrest pursuant to a warrant after stone had been indicted by a grand jury. and they had offered to do a search warrant at his home. so they were there for that purpose pursuant to a usual protocol of going at 6:00 a.m. for a number of reasons to make sure the person is at home, to make sure there's a minimum of disruption to the neighborhood and minimized the potential of danger. and they were there to look for evidence as well as arresting him. as you said, it was laid out why they needed to do it this way. because he had been indicted for obstruction of justice and lying, including lies about whether or not he had had text communications. part of the reason for that lie, i understand, is to make sure that congress, which was asking him these questions, wouldn't be able to follow up and actually get that evidence, those text messages. so even if those texts already were in possession of mueller's team, there could have within other evidence on the premise in hard drives, other computers. also really recent communications, with other people, potential co-conspirators, trying to get their story straight. and you don't want to tip somebody often they're about to be arrestled ed so they can tel other people to flee and things like that. >> graham is making the argument that the manner in which this arrest took place addled to the media circus. do you believe that the fbi cares about optics when they're carrying out these things? >> i think there's a media circus going on. >> for sure. >> all the president's men are either under indictment, going to be dietindicted or going to o jail. people looked at this and said "what is going on?" one of the biggest advisers to the president is arested. it's also not uncommon. i've seen this throughout my career. where elected officials, judges or other high-profile people are arested early morning hours, woken up out of bed, in their page jpa jammas. i think it's disturbing to see guns drawn, but i think it's probably protocol at the fbi. i think they had their reasons for doing it. tampering with evidence is certainly one of them. i don't know what the risk of flight was per se. certainly tampering of evidence is certainly something i think they had to be concerned about. >> michael, what's your take here? >> i'm kind of laughing at this idea of roger stone as a victim. the fact you've got lindsay graham and others trying to paint this picture that is so horrifying to see him arrested the way he was. please. spare me. walk in any other neighborhood in this country when police are executing warrants. it's the same thing. when they've gomt tt the goods you, they're coming a..er ye in. he knew at any moment his good night's e.r. would night's rest would be disrupted by police. anybody sitting back saying this is so horrible, what happened to poor roger stone. spare me. the fact of the matter is, to the congressman's point, this is a process that has been played out over and over again. by many others who are within the president's circle, have gotten themselves caught and are now paying the piper with more pain to come. >> the process has been played out. michael, stay there. i want to cover another big story in the russia investigation. federal prosecutors are saying russian hackers altered information obtained from mueller's own case documents and they tried to put it to use as part of a disinformation campaign against the investigation. nbc news investigative reporter tom winter is back. congratulations. he just got married. how do these hackers get this information and what were they trying to do with it? >> this happens when the case goes forward to time, and that is if you're indicted, you're entitled to see the evidence the government has. so the government turns over that evidence. in this particular case, what would happen is mueller's team trned over certain parts of evidence that they had against a company called concord management. a company owned by evgeny progosin whose nickname is "putin's chef." charged as a result of the troll farm and all of the efforts that were put into play to interfere in the 2016 election. basically, stephanie, the government says, okay, here's some of the evidence they have. they have to turn it over to the u.s. company concord management for those defense attorneys to review. mueller's team says in october of last year some of that information popped up on a twitter account in an online file sharing account that was registered by an individual or entity with an i.p. address belonging to russia. they had serious concerns because some of the file also they were able to identify as belonging to their evidence. now that they have evidence that they know they've shared with this concord management, ultimately owned by a russian individual, a russian company, they see it pop up online. the reason they say it was disinformation is because only a limited amount of the information was put out and essentially this twitter account made it seem like, well, this is all that robert mueller has against these troll farms and against the russians period. obviously they have a lot more information. that's the reason we know about this in the first place. because robert mueller's team has been arguing over past months saying hey, we turned over some of the information but we don't want to turn over the really sensitive stuff, the manner and the means as to how we know that this evidence exists and how we know the russians did it and they used this yesterday as an example in the court filing to say look, we turned over the most basic stuff. it's stuff we talked about on air. it's the facebook posts, those type of things. not exactly the real sensitive goods so to speak. they say if you're already sharing this stuff, what's going to happen if we turn over the really sensitive material. that's how we know about the issue in the first place. >> my god, can you imagine what it's like inside robert mueller's held? >> we'll let you know. >> the hackers were successful in what they were trying to do here? >> it doesn't appear so. this twitter account has been suspended. the fact this came out in october and this is the first time really hearing it publicly. the fact they were able to identify this is already information we've already seen. it doesn't seem to have made any impact at this point. it's not something that seems to have gone viral so to speak. doesn't appear this had immediate effect. appears the fbi and mueller's team were able to shut it down quickly. >> twitter what is it good for, absolutely nothing. i want to bring my panel back. jessica, what are mueller's options? does he have the option not to rescream this kind of information to the people being indicted? >> mueller made a filing in which he was seeking to have the court deny an application by the defense attorneys to be able to share the sensitive material more wildly than the court previously authorized. >> because he's saying we have to keep it locked down? >> the concern was about it being disseminated widely including to people in russia not subject to the court's jurisdiction, for example, for contempt. the defense has access to the material. the protective order condition is people cap onn only look at material in the office also of the law firm. in hard copy form. it can't be decimated electronically. this way, the lawyers are supposed to be able to keep control of the information so it can't just get out into gem circumstan general circulation. >> wow. michael, we know there's one thing robert mueller's team is and it's tight. if that altered information had gotten out, would that mean mueller has to make a public statement to help people understand what's true and what isn't? i can't imagine he wants to do that. >> yes, he doesn't want to do that. i doubt he would. he may probably put out some innocuous point about the information. because his concern would be disclosing more information by commenting on that than he otherwise needs to. i think with mueller, as we've just recently saw when the office put out statements in the last month, that they keep it very narrowly detyped. they keep it close lipped each when there's something that is outrageous. they're very measured in their response. i think in this instance, he would have been the same way. >> this specific information was class fewlew classified as nonsensitive. does the practice, does what happened prove that it is a national security risk? had it been different information, it would be a different story. >> i think it also demonstrate also the hideous nature of the attack on our country right now to undermine our faith in our judicial system. this is not a new game. >> but cyber warfare. >> use of technology that we created is now being used against us to undermine our faith in our judicial system. that to me is each more important than this particular issue. or even it is nature of thises what disclosed. and how it's being used again to attack us as a country, as a nation. and the president's response to these things. meeting with the ambassador. laughing at the firing of comey. makes a lot of people wonder what is going on. >> all right. we'll take a quick break. coming up, what happened to the eighth wonder of the world? talking fox conn. their plan to bring 13,000 jobs to the state of wisconsin now seems to be in doubt. i know it is winter. it is supposed to be cold. but not like this. that extreme and deadly cold is punishing a massive portion of this country. we're going to get an update from the "today" show's al roker, my dear neighbor in the center of the polar vortex. hey. i heard you're moving into a new apartment. yeah, it's pretty stressful. this music is supposed to relax me, though. ♪ maybe you'd mellow out a bit if you got geico to help you with your renters insurance. oh, geico helps with renters insurance? good to know. yeah, and they could save you a lot of money. wow, suddenly i feel so relieved. you guys are fired. get to know geico and see how much you could save on renters insurance. and the army taught me a lot about commitment. which i apply to my life and my work. at comcast we're commited to delivering the best experience possible, by being on time everytime. and if we are ever late, we'll give you a automatic twenty dollar credit. my name is antonio and i'm a technician at comcast. we're working to make things simple, easy and awesome. welcome back. i hope you're warm on the couch. i know it is winter but outside went freezing windchills are sweeping across the northeast and the midwest. at least nine people killed. 230 million people are dealing with subzero temperatures this week. with no relief until the weekend. cold weather wreaking havoc with travelers. my friend and neighbor al roker is out on the hudson river in kingston, new york. hey, al, good morning. how is it out there? >> good morning. we're on the deck of the u.s. coast guard cutter in the bay. their mission is to go up and down the hudson river, making sure the shipping lanes stay open. because this is a vital connection for the northeast to get fuel oil gasoline up and down the river. they've got to make sure they keep it clear. 121 million people under winter weather, windchill warnings and advisories. brutal cold goes on for at least one more day. but the good news is we do see relief coming. starting tomorrow, after the dangerous windchills, but not as bad as they've been over last 48 hours, we start to see a warm-up. we'll see temperatures by saturday up into the 30s by chicago. 30s in minneapolis. 30s in new york city. even down into the south, temperatures into the 40s. by sunday, we are talking about near 60 for atlanta. mid-40s for new york city. upper 30s. mid-40s for chicago and upper 30s for minneapolis. so this has been brutal. again, for folks who talk about what happened to global warming, climate change, that's the term, and that makes for massive swings in our weather. climate is long term. weather is at the moment. and changing climate makes the weather have these extreme swings. we will be swinging back to more normal. i can't wait. back to you, steph, have a great weekend. >> thanks, al roker. coming up, it was described as the single biggest economic comeback hope for the entire midwest. president trump even touted fox conn's plans to bring thousands of manufacturing jobs back to wisconsin as one of his key talking points. he broke ground i think it was with a gold shovel. those plans seem to have changed. jerry reed singing "eastbound and down" ♪eastbound and down. loaded up and truckin'♪ ♪we gonna do what they say can't be done♪ ♪we've got a long way to go ♪and a short time to get there.♪ ♪i'm eastbound, just watch ole bandit run♪ whatever party you've got going in the back, we've got the business up front. if your moderate to severeor crohn's symptoms are holding you back, and your current treatment hasn't worked well enough it may be time for a change. ask your doctor about entyvio®, the only biologic developed and approved just for uc and crohn's. entyvio® works at the site of inflammation in the gi tract, and is clinically proven to help many patients achieve both symptom relief 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money, power, politics. remember that plant, the electronics company, fox conn, that said they would be bringing major jobs to wisconsin, the one where they promised to build a $10 billion campus, employ 13,000 new worker, which caused the governor scott walker to offer them a whopping 4 billion bucks in tax breaks. president trump praised the move numerous times. pretty sure he's mentioned it a dozen times after he held a ceremony at the white house to announce the deal. well, fox conn is saying what they've said before, they might not be building a factory as much as they're building a research center and those 13,000 jobs, they're looking like they'll happen at the end of 2020, which seemingly is a promise of not going far beyond that and those jobs are more like research and engineering. i need to bring in robert costa, national political reporter for "the washington post." nbc analyst. and of course moderator for pbs "washington week." and ben shapiro, host of the politico podcast. huge hookups, $3 billion in tax credits. $134 million in highway improvements. 764 million bucks in local and city incentives. even that got a lot of pushback in the state saying is it worth it. now look where we are. >> we should note fox conn didn't get a lot of their tax breaks because they didn't meet the number of jobs they had to fill. it's remarkable, the walkback here. if you're talking about going from a blue collar factory to research and development, those are higher paying jobs requiring much more education and they're much fewer in numbers. they basically pulled the plug here. we're bringing manufacturing back to the midwest. this is part of a renaissance. that renaissance is not happening. >> they also have done this before. fox conn promised a deal in south america and didn't follow through. what position does this put the president in? to ben's point, he had been brag, using as a political tool for quite some time. here's what he said a while ago. >> fox conn will invest in southeast wisconsin. while a larmer facility is constructed over the coming years. and that facility is currently under negotiation. fox conn in wisconsin just announced. we have many companies i say pouring back into the country. i think that's going to have a huge positive impact on race relations. we have fox conn. they make the phones for apple. so many companies are building now in our country. this is one of the largest plants in the world. if you build in manhattan a million foot building, that's a very big building. >> here's the thing. the president can't control what fox conn does. over and over, he promised don't sell your house in ohio, opennof these factories are closing, and alas they are. now fox conn, 13,000 factory jobs might not be coming. we know it already hurt scott walker back in november. >> this presents new challenges for not only the president, for the republican party. look at what happened in the 2018 midterms. the democrat wins the gubernatorial race. tammy baldwin, the senator. across the midwest in states like ohio, pennsylvania, states that were critical to president trump in 2016, now democrats are starting to come bang ack and there's a case they're making against the president's industrial jeagenda. >> one of the spokespeople for fox conn talks about the high cost of making tv screens in the u.s. actually, i think we have a full screen of it. here we go. in terms of tv, we have no place in the u.s., he said in an interview, we can't compete. he's basically saying when it comes to manufacturing, higher labor costs are just too much here. news flash, we already knew that. >> positions have not changed since they announced the jobs. wages in the u.s. are going up a little bit but they're not that fast. so this is part of their playbook. big splashy promises about opening factories in u.s. they did it in pennsylvania. they did in brazil. and then they don't follow through. this not a shocker to anyone it is expensive to manufacture stuff in the u.s. like tvs. the idea that anyone bought this from the start, that fox conn was going to bring this back to the midwest, it's a fantasy. >> we say president trump's base is impenetrable. think about the people who were the furloughed workers over the last few weeks. all those harley davidson riders or employees who have been hurt so badly by the tariffs. we know profits were completely wiped out. now people in wisconsin aren't getting those jobs. will this impact the president? >> we'll have to see how it plays out this year. this is partly why the white house continues to focus on immigration. they say immigration for them is not only an issue that's about national eye dent tishgs it's a way of connecting with blue color workers who may be frustrated with the way the economy's going for them. they see immigration as a way that protects their own jobs. union workers have often had reservations about rising immigration levels, whether it's illegal or legal immigration. er there trying to play to that impulse in the electorate as much as they are to play into the conservative side. >> either the economy is so good, look at low unemployment. or immigrants are stealing all our jobs. can't really have both. i want to take a quick look at markets. they opened now six minutes ago. can we take a look? we're down about 150 this morning. i want to point out something that you noticed on twitter. the president tweeted yesterday about the markets crossing the 25,000 mark, calling it tremendous news. here's the thing. i'm pretty sure he said that already. >> yes, it was tremendous news a year ago, too, when he tweeted that. dow just crashed through 25,000. so pretty remarkable to me he has tweeted the same market milestone about the same time two years in a row. which basically shows you that markets have done nothing over the course of the last year, freaking out about trade wars, the rest of it. but it doesn't seem to matter to him. the question is do his followers even notice? maybe they celebrated twice too. >> there you go. i guess there's always a good reason to have a party. but pay attention to the markets. we went right back to where we were. ben, robert, thank you so much. coming up, the race for 2020 already heating up with many candidates and potential candidates trotting out very big progressive ideas. trying to one-up one another. could democrats find their unifying message in something the senate majority leader mitch mcconnell said yesterday? first, it is time to be fearless. i recently spoke to the author of the new book "be fearless" and she joufoutlined five princs to help americans during these divided times. >> we do live in a divided time where people are gripped with fear. but people also have ideas about the different world they want to see. and so the become really is a clarion call to get out of there. the last principle is let urgency comfort fear. martin luther king called it the fierce 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"i am here." talk to your doctor about preventing migraine with aimovig. and be there more. so again, using "para," you're talking about something una mesa para dos personas. that is for someone. pretty good. could listening to audible inspire you to start something new? download audible and listen for a change. donald trump has used his phony populism to divide americans and demonize immigrants. he uses phone you populism to distract from the fact he has used the white house to enrich billionaires like himself. because real pop lulism is not racist. real populists don't engage in hate speech and don't rip babies from families at the border. >> okay, that was ohio democratic senator sherrod brown, flirting with the idea of a presidential run. brown, now joining a pool of potential contenders who either say they're run organize still toying with the idea. i want to bring back my panel. joe, senator brown is going to iowa today. not by accident. and next week, he's expected to make stops in key states, primary states, new hampshire, nevada, south carolina. what is the path for someone like him to the nomination? >> those ohio boys, sherrod, to me ryan as well. they just bring something unique to the table. they survive in red states. particularly sherrod brown. would runs as a deep blue senator. in a deeply red state. this is a purple state, ohio. that labor left he brings to the table. and sherrod has had a long history in both the house and senate. he's got a lot of experience. i think that's what he brings i think to the table. >> do you think because the table is so crowded, it could help find a unified message? the argument was democrats cleared the field so much for hillary clinton that maybe they didn't have a chance to hear all of the voices, the uprising. >> i'm not afraid to -- >> and by us, i mean the universal us, not me. >> or myself. >> yes. >> but i do think that this opportunity to have this debate, get these issues out. they won't even talk to their issues or needs. i think that's what you're going to see in this multicandidate field. >> michael what is the unifying message for republicans? we talked so much about the democrats, well, they got people on the far left. what are they going to do, centrist? couldn't we say the same to republicans? >> i think unifying message for republicans in its current state right now is one word, trump. and that seems to be the go to. they look across the aisle. they don't see any real competition to the president. you've got internal structures now being tightened down and restricted to really prevent anyone from coming too the republican primary process at leevt as much as possible. so it's all hands on deck. so building the wall, if you will, around the president going into the cycle. go back to the 2016 primary and general election. it was all about the hot rhetoric that trump was putting out there about immigrants, about -- on racial issues, et cetera. so i can see that playbook being updated a little bit by going into the cycle, particularly if you've got some of the leading progressive candidates who really kind of are holding sway right now. it changed the dynamics of the conversation on the left such that it's just easier to throw bromides at them all day long as oppose to discussing the substance of policy. >> for anyone going after howard schultz or mike bloomberg, doesn't that leave a huge amount of room in the middle? because president trump didn't pivot. people said, well, once he's elected, the centrist republicans will be happy. well, if the market stays where it is, all of those centrists in the middle, whether republicans or democrats, kind of sounds like there's a lot of them. >> i think there is. i think it's also reflective of this last election. i think a lot of the -- >> the midterms you mean. >> the midterms. a lot has been made of the new faces to the house democratic caucus. what's important to keep in mind is how we won the house back. we didn't win the house back by win being seats in new york city or boston or other major met drop po metros. seats are held to back former navy pilots. women of -- >> in new jersey. >> great example. just so many that added to that might and that strength in this 2016 election. i think we need to take that into -- i'm sorry, the 2018 electionings. i think we need to take it into the 2020 elections in a strong way. >> if you tune into fox news at night, sean hannity would have you believe either thrall super progressive. if you look -- listen, we know how loud that noise is on the very progressive side. if you look at who won, it was moderates chugging along. >> an excellent point. something a lot of people overlooked or just didn't pay attention to in this last election. you look at that democratic class. everyone focuses on the ocasio cortezes and folks like that. but that class is a center right class. a centrist class in a lot of issues. a little bit conservative on some of the economic stuff. it's going to be very interesting to see, again, how progressives pull the argument back as far as they would like to when you're looking at the folks getting to the congressman's point elected in the middle of the country. that is not the message that's electing those democrats in the middle of the country. >> all right, yesterday mitch mcconnell emerged from his turtle shell and he made some comments that set social media afire that would propose a bill to make election day a federal holiday. >> this is a democrat plan to restore democracy? paid vacation for every federal employee would likes to hover around while you cast your ballot? power grab that's smelling more and more like exactly what it is. >> a power grab, really. >> it's how he sees the world, democracy at work. giving people the opportunity to actually go and vote. people work for a living in my district. election day, they don't get off to go and vote on election day. i think one of the worst things about our electoral process right now is turnout. people aren't coming out to vote. this is an opportunity. give them that chance to have the day off and treat like a national holiday. encourage people to participate in our civic duty. >> wouldn't this be seen as a good thing to get more people to vote? >> yes, well, look, you know this is not the goal here. i want you to vote as long as you vote in the way i want you to vote. the parties have for a long time been in the game of turning out their vote. we talk about turning out the vote. they don't want your voters to turn out. they want their voters to turn out. that's concerns a lot of folks in the party have had when it comes to these types of proposal ans. as national chairman, i took a close look at this. was advocating some changes that got me into a lot of trouble. i strongly believe voting should be a national holiday. and if you don't like a national holiday because it's going to cost too much money after we've already spent $2 trillion to increase the national debt, but we'll set that aside, then have voting over the weekend. have voting take place saturday and sunday. and let's move it from the fall when it's dark at 3:00 in the afternoon and 4:00 in the afternoon and move it to the spring and summer so you can get more participation. there's a lot of ways we can engage. to open up this process so every citizen can exercise the franchise. >> one of the greatest parts about being american. michael, joe, thank you. up next, a new report, in an era of me too, that some fear could potentially set women back decadings. now saying they're too afraid to mentor i'm going to bring back two of my favorite ladies to discuss. ,l these great perks. i got to select my room from the floor plan... very nice... i know, i'm good at picking stuff. free wi-fi... laptop by the pool is a bold choice... and the price match guarantee. how do you know all of this? 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joining me to discuss, tiffany, founder and ceo of the crew and author of "drop the ball." tiffany, so men who are making this argument, well, suddenly i could be accused of harassment, i can't mentor women anymore. and we first heard this pop up from wall street. bloomberg had an article. i took issue with it because i can't find any evidence where there was ever any extraordinary mentoring on wall street. we've never had a female ceo of a bank. is this just an excuse? >> here's the thing. i want to talk to all the men out there who have this concern. i want to say that i feel empathy. i understand. you're concerned that you're walking on egg shells. you feel vulnerable in the workplace. you are concerned that your words or your behavior might be misinterpreted as being something other than who you are. >> we don't know what the new rules of the road are. >> welcome to the rules of being a woman or person of color or lbtq community. that's part of it. having to take a risk in showing you. you concerned you may be labeled as a creep because you compliment me on my dress. sometimes i'm labeled at the b word because i smile too much. we need to take this new experience that men are feeling in the workplace and actually channel it into something really positive, which is, why don't you work on creating a more inclusive culture and taking all of your frustration directing it at the men who are making you look really bad. the bad apples. and not punish women in the workplace because, quite frankly, your whole enterprise is going to crumble if you don't figure out how to leverage and harness the ingenuity and creativity and talent of the women. >> you and i have been mentored by men. we've spent our careers with men having lots of close personal social relationships. and many, many times people have said, well, how did she get there? why is he bringing her? there's not no truth to it. >> listen, i think the biggest issue today is we're living in a climate of hypersensitivity. microsensitivity. many are afraid to do and say the wrong thing in today's post movement era, which is a big issue. and look at us. there's so few female leaders. leaders are predominantly men. and we need leaders to be our mentors. and if leaders, which are predominantly men, are afraid to be with women alone, we have a big issue. we have a really big issue. 3 1/2 times more men say today that they will not go alone with a woman for dinner. five times more likely men not wanting to travel with women. >> this is a big problem. when we first heard this from mike pence, we laughed at it and said it was absurd. now if we're actually hearing this from business people, i am worried. >> well, here's the thing. there's lots of ways that the current system, as it was, was not allowing opportunities for women, for people of color, for people in the workplace to advance because oftentimes when you choose a mentor, you choose someone like yourself. i think this can present all kinds of opportunities for opening up the playing field to let more people get the leadership development and exposure and insight and advice that they need. you don't have to have -- if you're not going to have a dinner or closed door meeting with a woman, how about not have it with the young men either. choose three or four or five up and coming people in your industry. how about you have a group lunch, right, where you give your insight. you encourage them to peer coach one another and form a crew so they can support one another. there's ways to think about how we advance talent and support people that opens up the playing it field for everybody. we don't want to be more exclusionary. >> in a formal sense, that will be fantastic but it's also those informal connections that really make a huge difference in people's careers. and do we run the risk right now of losing that while the rules of engagement are so unclear? >> i think that's why it's time to rewrite the rules. it's time -- >> who is going to rewrite them and tell us what they are? because i don't know it. >> we always say it takes a village to raise a family. what is the 21st century, today, of a village? and i think it includes our companies. and that's what we have to really be thinking about. creating a culture of care. a culture of safety. a culture of security where we all belong. a culture we can thrive. we cannot go backwards. this is a trend that's a really scary trend. and the way to move forward it with positivity, proactive solutions for change and getting all of us to own this responsibility. and when you think about it, what's okay and not okay? there's a range of men from clueless to creepy to classy. you know, there's three categories, right? and i think in the post movement era, we need a new education of what's okay and what's not okay. and every generation has a different perspective. if you tell me i look nice, i'm going to say thank you. if you tell someone else they look nice, they may be offended. before you call that bad behavior as bad behavior, let's first point out that it makes us uncomfortable. give someone the benefit of the doubt that they may not be aware of the fact that i'm not comfortable with that. >> we're out of time. clueless, creepy, classy. we know that we need everyone to open their hearts, open their minds and open their doors because we want to do better collectively together. ladies, thank you. shelley and tiffany. we don't have time for good news rules but that was certainly some good news. having the two of you here is good news, not necessarily what we talked about. i'm stephanie ruhle. i'll see you at 1:00 p.m. how about more news with hallie jackson. >> you are always good news whenever you're on television. i'm hallie jackson in washington. president trump's newest comments on the special counsel investigation are sending shi i shivers through an already frigid washington. we learn more about how washington is trying to use robert mueller to discredit robert mueller. we're talking to somebody who has advised the president on the investigation. and that's not all chris christie is revealing about his time in donald trump's inner circle. he's here live on set to talk about all of it as the president throws some possible shade his way. plus, democrats dealing with the guy they can't shake. howard schultz keeping up his cross-country blitz. the promise he's making about his candidacy should he run. our team is set up and