Its like a war zone. Well talk to the governor of puerto rico about the reality on the ground. And later what donald trump told hugh hefners playboy in 1990 thats even more relevant today. This is mtp daily, and for two years and counting, it starts right now. Good evening. Im chuck todd here in new york. Welcome to mtp daily. If the gops Health Care Failure was devastating for the party, some republicans like Lindsey Graham are warning that a failure on taxes could be catastrophic. Theres one thing that is supposed to unify the party more than repealing obamacare its cutting taxes. Folks, the plan they unveiled yesterday sauf to a bit of a rocky start, because what they promise about the plan does not yet seem to match the actual plan released. It was a big problem for President Trump and republicans on health care. And its not going to make this tax issue any easier either. Lets start with tax promise number one. Our framework includes our explicit commitment that tax reform will protect low income and middle income households. Not the wealthy and well connected. They can call me all they want. Its not going to help. But there are a lot of goodies in this plan for the wealthy. The estate tax, which only applied to an estimated 11,000 people with some of the wealthiest statwealth iest estates in country, supposed to be repealed. All miv minimum tax primarily impactsing well off households also repealed in this and top income bracket for folks making more than 400,000 a year, cut to 35 from 39. 6 . So the gop wants to keep its promise that the wealthy wont benefit. Theyre going to have to explain. Which brings us to promise number two about this tax plan from the president. Its not good for me, believe me. But President Trump is rich. Tells us about it all the time. So all of those thing ice just said about this plan benefiting the wealthy also could apply to him. If you believe the president , that hes worth 10 million, this plan could save his family 4 billion in estate taxes alone. Repealing the all miv minimum tax slashed his 2005 tax bill want we know byes 3ds 1 million and we know it, the one leaked tax return we have. And hed also stand to potentially benefit from, of course a lower top rate. Beyond that, this plan slashes rates on passthrough income, how President Trumps businesses seem to be generally structured. Businesses that he is not die vetted from. The president wants to keep his promise he wont benefit. Hes going to have to explain how. And the white house today did not have an answer. How can you say that this is not a plan to help him . Its not the American People concerned about. Theyre concerned about their financial position. Dont you think it would be good for the president to prove that bereleasing his tax returns . What were triking to do and working on at the white house is to increase the lifestyle of american citizens. This tax plan as it stands out in appears it will benefit the president and his family. Why not just be candid about that . Look, i told you it will benefit the middle class. Republicans say theyll make sure those passthrough change doss not benefit people like mr. Trump. They just dont quite say how. Promise three, up next. Every american is, every income level especially the poor and middle class keeps more of what they earn. Now that is a big promise to make, and one that the white house is already saying cannot keep. You cant guarantee that no middle class family will get a tax increase . There will be middle class families that get a tax increase under your plan . George, thats an exception to everything. You can always find a unique family somewhere. But if you live somewhere with high state or local taxes you cant deduct those from your federal return under this plan. That could mean a big tax increase for you. Folks, bottom line, the devils in the details and we dont know a lot of the details. Which tax bracket do i fall into . 12, 25 or 35 . We dont know. Havent told us which correspond to each bracket and havent definitively set the brackets. The framework says they might add a bracket for top earners. Joined now by republican congressman mark meadows of North Carolina chairman of the House Freedom caucus. Good to see you, sir. Chuck, great to be with you. Thanks so much. Start with the tax plan here. Sure. What is the promise here that you feel is the most realistic to keep . Kevin brady, weighs and me ways everybody will see a lower tax bill once this is done. You heard the president say the wealthy are not going to benefit here. Some of this is a contradiction. Now, i know sometimes people get exuberant at campaign rallies. What are the facts . What are you willing to promise . This is not a campaign rally, chuck, and as you indicated in the leadin there, were looking at the different brackets. Theres two things. Let me address the first question. First when we really look at those brackets, trying to make sure that the majority, in fact, the overwhelming majority of middle class, or middle income wage earners, get a break. I can tell you that i saw the president truly weigh in on this particular issue just the other day as they were discussing some of the final details, and what he said was, we want to make sure that we are not actually giving a break to those top income earners at the expense of those in the bottom brackets. So thats why so much attention has been placed on those at the 12 or 25 bracket. Right. Thats what kevins talking about. When we look at that and take in the 10 bracket now to zero. 159 bracket down to 12 percent the 15 bracket to 12 . Make sure moms and dads on main street are the main beneficiary. Thats what im committed to do. Whats the definition of middle class for you . What is it going to be . You know, its really about my constituency back home. Because thats what its, important. 750,000 people i represent in western North Carolina. Many of them are hard working american taxpayers that truly feel like the special interests here in washington, d. C. Get their carveouts, their special loopholes and so were going to do away with those. Thats my commitment. Not only to you but to my constituency and as we look at that, one of the big things i got excited about. You mentioned this. That Small BusinessTax Deduction going from 39. 6 down to 25 . Because they do the majority of the employing around this country, and so as we look at that, its critically important that we stay focused on making sure that this is not just a break for the rich, and i think thats what youre hearing in the messaging. Obviously you can look at a number that, the deserve is in the detail, but this is about a give and take, but its taking away those special interest loopholes, giving it to the people back home. Let me ask you again the question i asked. What do you consider middle class income . What are we looking at here . The range of middle class income . In terms of range, yet to be determined. Most of the time when you look at that its those people that are making 250,000 or less. Okay. Certainly for middle class to me, its much lower than that. You know, when youre looking in that 80,000 to 100,000 range for a family, you know, the correct definition of that, you have to look at the mean number, but i can tell you that this is not about giving those millionaires big breaks on their tax rates. Its about cutting it down and making sure that we do a good job of putting money back in the pocket of hard working american taxpayers, and one of the do you rule out actually raising taxes on the wealthy to pay for some of this tax cut . You know, thats never been anything that ive ruled out, and when they talk about that fourth bracket, i dont see that happening, but say we keep that top bracket at 39. 6 which is really was part of the discussion just yesterday. That would essentially mean we do raise the taxes on some of those, because were getting rid of some of the deductions that are out there. Thats why that top bracket was set at 35 . Trying to make sure even with some of the cuts that nobody sees an increase, but the other big part is, doubling that standard deduction goes to those that are working hard, trying to make sure that we protect that first 24,000 worth of income, where they pay zero tax on that. Thats a huge benefit putting money back in the pockets, and wed its our money. Its really their money, putting their money back in their pockets. I have a feeling i know what you might say. Curious. What is your sensitivity to the deficit . One hand you call, youve called yourself a deficit hawk. When the cbo comes back, what is your pain line, pain threshold on how much deficit spending youre willing to have to pay for this tax cut . Youve done your research. Certainly your producer let you know where ive been consistently for months on this particular thing. I dont believe that it should be revenue neutral. Ive been consistent with that even before we saw the framework, because what revenue neutral means to me is the well connected and those that have big, highpaid lobbyists end up moving around the same tax burden and they what do you cut . What are we going to cut . Heres where we cut. I think what we look at primarily is looking at bringing back those foreign earnings, repatriation. At whatever level that is. Got about 3 trillion sitting abroad that no ones paying taxes on. We make a mandatory bringing that back. There is income some 300 billion to 400 billion coming back from that. We look also at trying to take out some of the deductions that wed get, carried interest in one bantered around. The decision hasnt been made yet. But that would be directly at those hedge fund managers. So when you start to see some of those that detail is what matters, chuck, and for me, we believe in the Freedom Caucus we represent that forgotten man or woman, and that means weve got to represent them on tax reform as well. And were committed to do that. Sounds like youre willing to, about a 5 hadn00 billion o ten years. You outlined about a trillion, potentially. When we plook at this, obviously, we put in some mandatory cuts in our budget. 200 billion in cuts. When you look at dynamic scoring. Make a compelling case, chuck, when you look at really reducing the tax burden and getting this economy going at a 3. Gdp growth or better, that you can end up in a 15 yooeyear window. Perhaps not in ten, but a 15year window, making sure theres not a deficit there. We have to look at it much like people way 30year mortgage. Will we make decisions now and balance over time . Thats what im in favor of. Before i let you go, House Majority whip Steve Scalise made it there. Give us a sense of emotion on the floor . I dont know ive seen that much emotion on the house floor between democrats and republicans. Its certainly a day ill remember forever as we see steve coming back. Not only is he a good friend, but gave a compelling, compassionate return speech that was not really a speech. It was communication from the heart, and so it was a wonderful day. Hes already been whipping from the hospital bed on tax reform. So its going to be hard to tell him no as he starts to work on behalf of the American People. There you go. The new secret weapon to whipping votes there. Congressman, thanks for coming on spending a few minutes and sharing your views. Thank you. Tonights panel, tom brokaw, and jim walsh and contributor and firmer political director sarah. Welcome all. Tom, start with you. Look, this is the third interview ive conducted with somebody touting the tax plan and keep learning new, Different Things that all dont quite come together. Yesterday kevin brady everybody gets a tax cut. Mark meadows today trying to say, the wealthy isnt going to get the cut everybody thinks. Seem to have a messaging problem. I dont know what metaphor they use, but use common in sports. Everybody has a game plan. Work perfectly. Kickoff comes rules change. I cant tell you how many tax plans ive seen come and go over the year. Right now on k street, burning midnight oil. Figuring out what theyre going to do. Congressman meadows constituents in the western part of south carolina. Say shes a stool teach choolte. 90,000 in income. They dont have anybody doing a sharp pence what theyll do. Take whatever comes across the board for them. Everybody else as higher levels a way of figuring it out. Always elasticity in every tax plan. Intentions good, but it will change a lot between now and then. We can go through all the analysis. The fact is every Administration People know it does have to change. You guys did this. Okay . And one of the things, you did give everybody a check. If i recall. Yes. But explain the stumbles you ran into, what the thought the plan would be and what you ended up having to do end of the day, a more Bipartisan Congress and the president had to give on some of the rates. Had to give on some amounts. Had to give on some deductions. Had to give on cap gains. Give on the tenyear window . On the tenyear window. Had to give on, you know, a little bit of everything. And we needed democratic votes. I mean, every member going with the president to montana. This was critical to getting it done at the time. Thats going to be largely unheard of, i think, in this debate. Everyones talking nice today, but you know, when you talk about the 10 bracket and perhaps a top bracket that comes down. I dont know how many democrat, going to vote for this. Certainly not very many. You did the right interview which is the folks are going to matter in this debate are the freed caucus in getting this done. Joan . Democrats will matter, because theyll probably sit it out. I was struck listening to him and listening to all of this for the last two days, chuck. It reminds me of the very beginnings of Obamacare Repeal where you would talk to Different Congress members and they would all have a different notion of what the bill or bills is going to do. And u potopiautopian. And not hurt this person and a bill that was unpopular. Thats what were heading toward. When they have to put it on paper and tell us what the brackets are, tell us whos benefiting, whos not, its going to be very unpopular. Look, the polling on this, its theyve got a messaging problem here, tom, already. For instance, Corporate Tax rate, frankly thats something that has bipartisan support. Right. Ask the people if they think corporations need a tax break . Its just not there. One of the there actually is bipartisan support. There are brackets but also reality. Our old company ge paid 5. 3 . Effectively. The effective tax rate is much lower. What happens with a lot of these corporates. And a little different, extract oil from the middle east, taxed heavily and pay a higher number. A lot of conversations in America Eastern the most successful are not paying at that fixed 36 rate. I think we were very effective in selling this, even though we had hurdles you pointed out. We put a 450uhuman face on this. We had a tax family everywhere he went almost three years when speaking about taxes. Which was, this family of four or five is going to see a this amount of taxes reduced based on a new calculation. Based on a very detailed plan put out. I dont know theyre wrong in not putting out details because of what you said which is youve got k street sitting there trying to figure it out now and not spending dollars yet today, but having said that, theyve got i think were having the wrong debate about rates. You know . If i were advising these congressmen id be talking about real wage growth and putting a number to it, which is, some estimates say if you cut the Corporate Tax rate to 20 , you could see a real wage growth of almost 2,000. Thats a number we should be talking about. And joan, interesting. The president has some protectionist instincts. Yes. You could picture some democrats talking into saying, okay. Repatriate that money, make them use this portion. Right. For new jobs or this portion for my that is something, where im curious to see. Do democrats, do chuck and nancy. Chuck and nancy. Go to the president and, you could see a how you get joe donnelly in indiana. Even a tim ryan, himself has shown openness to some of this stuff. You could. To get onboard. Right. The president does not seem engaged in that particular way. You know, he could have started with this. Could have started with infrastructures reached out to these people. Done bipartisan things and didnt. I dont see it happening. I guess i would add, sarah, you successfully cut taxes. President obama did not raise taxes on anybody but the people over 450,000. That was really, really controversial to many of us liberals. And negative impacts on the economy, because it meant less investment. I dont know about i dont i can see this debate. Not personally but a negative impact on investment in business. It did. I never have seen those numbers. Where bush had it, the right decision for Investment Purposes not just for cutting taxes on the wealthy, but may have to give on that a little bit, a few points. Interested in a couple extras. What about reducing brackets to about three . I mean consolidating, just a simpler idea of whos going to be paying how much. We got brackets all over the place. A very good point. The one thing that will sell to the American People is severaller tseveral severaler taxes. Three brackets is semplsimpler seven. You cant get the mortgage deduction and a onepage form at the same time. Tom, ill always argue for a higher top margins tax rate. Thats how we built the middle class in the 50s and 60s. Stop there. Sorry. Thats okay. On the ground in puerto rico. Relief efforts stalled due to the distribution chain. Well be right back. Think again. This is the new new york. We are building new airports all across the state. New roads and bridges. New mass transit. New business friendly environment. New lower taxes. And new University Partnerships to grow the businesses of tomorrow today. Learn more at esd. Ny. Gov for tech advice. Dell Small Business advisor with one phone call, i get products that suit my needs and i get back to business. Bshwelcome back. Mtp daily turns two. Two years ago today, candidate trump unveiling his tax plan. What he promised about the plan didnt match the actual plan. Sound familiar . So what else was happening on that day we st