Potentially it could be big. I mean, looking at Michael Cohen, what this means is the same tactic that we have seen happening in this investigation out of the Southern District of new york, is happening, that we see happen in the Mueller Investigation. They go after other witnesses, encourage them to cooperate, and in this case you have this Business Partner who is cooperating, being offered significant being offered a potential sentence that is much smaller than what he could be facing. He could be facing 25 years for each count, owing millions of dollars in back taxes. All of that is being reduced, which says to me that he has some information that prosecutors would be interested in regarding Michael Cohen. That subsequently puts more pressure on Michael Cohen to cooperate to reduce his potential legal exposure and talk about whatever he knows that could aid the Mueller Investigation. It also, since this is outside of the jurisdiction of the Mueller Investigation, it really could take away some potential incentive that the president may have to continue to dangle the possibility of a pardon in front of Michael Cohen because he may not necessarily be able to
pardon every charge that he could face. So it definitely is more complex now. We dont know exactly what these prosecutors know and whether it does impact the Mueller Investigation. But it made it a lot more interesting. Bob, we have talked about the imbalance, at least in public, between the president s team, Rudy Giuliani owning all the sound bites, taking up all the oxygen in the room. The prosecutors, the investigators have not spoken publicly. But today, a reminder that any seemingly minor move by them just flips the Balance Of Power once again. And i assume youve been talking to trump allies. How did they take todays development . As kim was saying, shes spot on, this whole case for Michael Cohen has been delegated by Robert Mueller to the Southern District of new york. And there is a limit of options for the president s personal
legal team as they think through fighting the Mueller Investigation, publicly questioning its credibility, because the cohen case is out there on an island. And theyre worried about cohen cooperating. You do hear private concerns from my sources about what cohen could say if he begins to cooperate, should he be indicted at some point. These incremental developments are important because the white house but also the president s legal team just are not always sure about whats going to happen around the corner. Because, as you say, the federal investigators are so quiet about their operation. And jill, in your role as a veteran of the law, what did todays news on a Michael CohenBusiness Associate signal to you . Well, it is the traditional way of investigating. You start at the bottom and try to put pressure for someone to flip and talk about someone higher up. And then you hope that that person will similarly flip until you get to the head of the crime organization. And thats whats happening here. You have cohens Business Partner, who will testify
against cohen. That means that cohen, by the way, could be subject to state crimes as well as federal crimes and those cannot be pardoned by the president. He cannot be protected by the president in such case. So he will have even more reason to cooperate in the federal case. The cooperation here for his partner is both in federal and state cases. So its a very, very important thing. I think its actually even as important as it is, its not as important as the fact that there is going to be a meeting where information will be revealed only to republicans. Thats an outrage that we should really be focusing on, and that the president should not be allowed to get away with and congress shouldnt be allowed to get away with. There shouldnt be a meeting at all. This information is confidential for a reason. As youve noted, the prosecutors are keeping quiet because thats what theyre supposed to do in order to complete a fair investigation. So having it revealed at all is bad. But to reveal it to one side is really outrageous. Theyre watching, one would trust theyre watching all of it. And kim, lets repeat for the record, not a shred of evidence that there was a spy implanted in the Trump Campaign or two spies or as some have suggested, a spy ring. That didnt stop donald trump, as we showed, from going onto social media tonight. Thats the strategy of the president , to discredit anything that would possibly be harmful to him and his administration. He sees this investigation as harmful to him. And he is doing everything he can in political messaging. And this is messaging to his supporters, to republicans, that there is something nefarious happening here. Of course, as you said, there is not. The use of informants is very commonplace in federal investigations. And an informant is not a spy. But if you look at the polling in recent weeks, the president s constant attack on the Mueller Investigation in his messaging is resonating not just with his base but with republicans in general. There is a souring of Robert Mueller and this investigation among republicans as the midterms approach. I think thats why you see, as jill pointed out, republicans willing to sit down and not invite democrats to a meeting like that. Its giving the president is giving them cover ahead of a very tough midterm election. What we have to see is how far they go, will they back calls for a Special Counsel, as you pointed out, or more direct attacks on Robert Mueller . Or will they just be happy to meet with the president and go along with the things that hes calling for in the interim . Bob, some Headline WritersOn Television and in your business have put this as investigating the investigators. This may be impossible for you to answer, but does the white house get how that looks, do they get the heft and the magnitude of Something Likethis . They hear the calls from the lawmakers to have a Special Counsel investigate the department of justice. Anticipate the Special Counsel within the doj. Whats important to follow here are how so many players inside the administration are trying to contain the situation. They may not be successful at containing it. Attorney general Jeff Sessions is not moving to appoint a Special Counsel to oversee the doj. Hes relying on the Inspector General within the department of justice to come up with a report on the dojs conduct. John kelly, chief of staff, is trying to set up a meeting with lawmakers to assure them about their concerns and have more communication about the surveillance process, about the origin of this russia probe. You have rod rosenstein, the Deputy Attorney general who over sees the Mueller Investigation, trying to protect the process of a counterintelligence operation, all amid an ongoing investigation. Its an uneasy situation for all
of these players. But theyre dealing with a president who is combative as ever. Bob, lets say on behalf of the press corps, the president tried to wave away questions about rod rosenstein, we would love to ask questions about visiting dignitaries but we get no other access to the president , no other News Conferences. Having said that, what did you make of his lack of an answer until the question do you have confidence in rosenstein . He didnt give an answer, and thats telling because hes not expressing confidence at a moment where he could express confidence. The lawmakers who are close to the president like mark meadows and congressman devin nunes, theyre very unhappy with rosenstein. The president fumes at times about rosenstein and sessions and how this probe continues to go on and on. But the president has not had a formal News Conference in quite some time. Many months. These open pool sprays, its an insider term, but these pool sprays, thats what theyre doing, that allows the president to control the question and answer more than he would in that kind of traditional News Conference setting. Derivation of the Phrase Pool Spray for our lay audience, The Press Pool is the tight group of correspondents and camera crews who cover the white house every day and its a Spraying Motion of the cameras so you can get a shot of all involved, lest someone come away with the wrong definition. Jill, i want to play a piece of an interview with lesley stahl. This is lesley stahl talking about when she first went over to interview donald trump in trump tower. This is december 2016, after he won the election, something he told her then. Well discuss it on the other side. At one point he started to attack the press. And i said, you know, that is getting tired. Why are you doing this, youre doing it over and over and its boring and its time to end
that, you know, youve won the nomination. And why do you keep hammering at this . And he said, you know why i do it . I do it to discredit you all and demean you all so when you write negative stories about me, no one will believe you. Lesley stahl, as said to judy woodruff, two giants of the Television News business. Jill, the question to you becomes, youre always appropriately talking about the focus of the feds. How mueller, while not a Monastic Environment totally, something close, they all keep their head down and do their work. Are they likely to see, are they likely to react to a remark like that . I dont think they will react at all to that. I think hes also doing it, donald trump is doing it because eight been effective. You noted that. His people believe this. He is chipping away at the first amendment, at the freedom of the
press. Hes chipping away at the department of justice and the fbi as well. And its having an impact. We have three branches of government that must be sacrosanct and we have to protect them. And thats whats happening here, is hes being effective. And by being quiet, as is appropriate for the prosecutor, hes not defending himself. Someone has to get out there and start defending in a very effective way what is going on and how accurate the facts are that are coming out of the investigation. And as has been noted, there is no spy that was implanted, that an informant is part of a normal investigation, and we need people to understand that what donald trump is saying has
absolutely no factual predicate. It is something he has made up. And he attacks the press, exactly as he told lesley stahl, in order that no one will believe him. If the ig does the investigation that hes calling for, when the ig says there was nothing there, there was no one implanted, this was a legitimate investigation, the supporters of donald trump will reject that, even though they accepted the igs report when he had negative things to say about mr. Mccabe. So its not fair. I dont know where the fairness is in this. But its working, and donald trump is going to keep on doing it as long as it works. And until the democrats and the press stand up and rebut what he is saying. Our Opening Panel of three contains two lawyers and two journalists. Well let the viewers work out the math on how we reached that conclusion. With our thanks to kimberly atkins, robert costa, jill winebanks. Appreciate you all very much for coming on tonight. Coming up, a Cabinet Secretary today says she wasnt aware of the intel communitys biggest finding on Election Security. The problem is Election Security is part of her job. Later, its Election Night in texas, arkansas, georgia, kentucky, which of course means Steve Kornacki at the big board with tonights returns as we get
under way for the 11th hour. Wt the details. Late checkout. Downalternative pillows. And of course, price. Tripadvisor helps you book a. Hotel without breaking a sweat. Because we now instantly. Search over 200 booking sites. To find you the lowest price. On the hotel you want. Dont sweat your booking. Tripadvisor. The latest reviews. The lowest prices. Not the other way around. Reporter secretary, to that point, do you have any reason to doubt the january 2017 Intelligence Community assessment who said it was Vladimir Putin who tried to meddle in this election to try to help trump win . I do not believe ive seen that conclusion. That the specific intent was to help trump win, im not aware of that. But i have no reason to doubt any intelligence assessment. Okay. Just to repeat what you just saw there, Homeland Security secretary Kirstjen Nielsen said
today shes not aware of a major Intelligence Community assessment that Russia Meddled in the 2016 election with the goal of helping President Trump. Upon hearing that, paul begala was among those who pounced, Accusing Nielsen of being either uninformed or fudging to curry favor with the president or willfully blind to the ongoing foreign threat that she was sworn to defend the usa from. Her remarks were striking. It wasnt surprising when a spokesperson quickly tried to clean it up. Quote, the secretary has previously reviewed the Intelligence Communitys assessment and agrees with it, as she stated today and previously. Just for review, that january 2017 assessment, on the web for all to read, it says, quote, putin and the russian government developed a clear preference for President Elect trump. We have high confidence in these judgments. But after nielsens comments today, the damage was done and lifelong republican david frum went on cnn with a frontal attack on the women who was charged, after all, with keeping all of us safe. For her to say this, is a confession of disengagement from one of her prime responsibilities. And we know why shes doing it. Secretary nielsen is one of the more professional members of President Trumps cabinet. For that reason shes been subject to his abuse and bullying and tirades. She nearly quit, we reported, a few weeks ago. Its been made clear, the price of keeping her job is surrendering her independence. A lot to react to there. Here to talk about it, frank figliuzzi, joined by mieke eoyang, an attorney, former staffer for house intelligence and armed services. Frank, theres no good comparison, so ill put it bluntly. In normal times, how would our nation be reacting to the
knowledge that we have been under and remain under constant electronic threat, especially to our ongoing and rolling elections . Well, i think under normal circumstances, brian, as you say, we would be coming together in a bipartisan fashion to ensure the security of the midterm elections. When we hear this play out as were hearing today, that the secretary of Homeland Security is either ignorant of intelligence thats been widely accepted throughout the Intelligence Community, or, second choice, she is corrupting the Intelligence Process deliberately to benefit and protect the president and or her own job, that americans need to be concerned about what their state and local systems are doing to protect the midterm elections. Thats only those two choices. Shes corrupting the Intelligence Process or shes ignorant. Both of those are bad. Both of those should concern every american and the rest of the Intelligence Community should come together, call her out, and ensure she has all the facts she needs to protect the midterm elections. Our friend frank has been around the block on this area a time or two. Lets take for the purpose of this conversation his two choices. Is there a chance the secretary does not believe the findings of the Intelligence Community . Well, she said at the end of that statement that she has no reason to doubt particular intelligence assessments. Shes viewed as one of the more professional members of the Trump National security cabinet. I think its entirely likely that david frums choice of trying to preserve her job, knowing the president is watching, that she cant say certain things On Television, is more likely. Its really a shame when you have National Security officials who cant speak the truth in a way that the president can hear
it about serious threats to the nation. It is a shame. Is it also dangerous .