Transcripts For MSNBCW The 11th Hour With Brian Williams 201

Bill well talking ability his challenge to President Trump for the 2020 gop nomination. And where so much was lost much was also saved. The president of france issues a bold challenge to his country. It now means moving quickly to raise a new notre dame from the ashes as the 11th hour gets under way on a tuesday night. And good evening once again from our nbc news headquarters here in new york. Day 817 of the trump administration. Just one day to go now before the release of the special counsels redacted report. Tonight new reporting from our nbc news colleagues reveals heightened anxiety among some former and Current White House staff about what those findings might be. Quote, officials who cooperated with special Counsel Robert Mueller are worried that the version of his report will expose them as the source of damaging information about president donald trump. Those staffers fear, quote, how trump and his allies will react if it appear tuesday be clear precisely who shared information with mueller. They got asked questions and told the truth, and now theyre worried the wrath will follow, one former white house official said. One source describes, quote, break down level anxiety among some current and former staffers who cooperated with the investigation at the direction of trumps legal team at the time. There is also concern that new facts in the report could be disclosed that do not reflect favorably on the president. Many of the white house Staff Members who spoke with muellers team would most likely have been questioned about obstruction including but not limited to the firing of former fbi director james comey, the pressure on former attorney general Jeff Sessions to step down. The attempt to get rid of special Counsel Robert Mueller. Some of the top officials who were in trumps close orbit and who also spoke to mueller include but arent limited to white House Counsel don mcgahn, former calms director hope hicks and the two former chiefs of staffs Reince Priebus and john kelly. Like jared kushner, Sarah Sanders listened in part to interviews. Mueller also interviewed james comey, Jeff Sessions, former National Security advisor mike flynn. A lot of names here. But former white House Counsel don mcgahn might be the most potentially dangerous witness for the president. He reportedly met with muellers team for over 30 hours of testimony and witnessed some of the events that led to concerns about possible obstruction including efforts to get rid of mueller and sessions and the comey and flynn firings. Last year as mueller was in the middle of his inquiry mcgahn had this to say about his current job. I advise the president on a rage of issues from constitutional law, executive power, whether or not we can go to war, judicial selection, administrative law. And that involves you in just about everything . Unfortunately, yes. And axios recently reported on what mcgahn had to say to about 40 Senior Republican Senate aides earlier this month. Quote, i spent the last couple of years getting yelled at, and you may soon read about some of the more spirited debates i had with the president. Axios goes onto say mcgahn didnt explicitly mention muellers report but sources in the room said they understood him to be referring to it when he said this. Todays reporting that white house staffers are worried about whats about to be revealed takes on a new dimension given trumps continued attacks on the special counsel inquiry. Law enforcement veterans say this continues to remind them of what theyve heard from organized crime figures. This doesnt feel like a president looking at an investigation to me. It reminds me of a case i did as a prosecutor, a dixie a mafia case. As witnesses came into the government and truthfully testified he in one case put a hit out, in other cases sent back his displeasure. And the president is acting much more like a mob boss than he is as a president to the extercht hes questioning people in his organization who truthfully testify when theyre called in front of a grand jury or speak with federal prosecutors. It just says so much about the mob mentality of the president and the white house that people are scared about exactly as matt says, just doing what they had to do under the law. We have an attorney general who seems to be serving as a consigliere for the mob boss, the president. Our nbc News White House unit tells us trumps attorneys met today again to prepare for this Mueller Report. A source says relevant white house staff will continue to meet ahead of the thursday release. And the president continues to try to shape Public Opinion as he waits for whatever new revelations may be on the way. Its a total phony. I dont have to say that i mean, you just take a look at the conclusion. I heard its going to come out on thursday. Thats good. And there cant be anything there because there was no crime. There was no anything. The crime was committed by the other side. This crime was all made up. It was all a fabrication. With that lets bring in our guests on a tuesday night. Kimberley atkins. Robert costa, National Political reporter for the Washington Post and moderator of Washington Week on pbs. And peter baker, chief White House Correspondent for the new york times. Good evening gang and welcome to you all. And robert, id like to begin with you. Were at the eve of the eve of the release of this report. Give me some color, some atmospherics, some moods from inside the Trump White House including the president himself. Talking to white house officials, witnesses for the mueller probe, attorneys for witnesses who went inside, listened to all the questions from Robert Muellers team, there is anxiety. And it is anxiety that goes all the way back to that original decision by the president s former lawyers john dowd and ty cobb to cooperate, to not use executive privilege before the grand jury. And because of that decision years ago now all of these people in the president s orbit theyre wondering tonight what about the president s conduct and possible obstruction of justice will be detailed in this report. Peter baker you have a report on the times website tonight about how the president has led as the leader of his people not necessarily all people, ill read you back part of your work, and you really ought to consider becoming a writer. This reads, the oldfashioned idea that a president once reaching office should at least pretend to be the leader of all the people these days seems so, well, oldfashioned. Mr. Trump does not bother with the pretense. He is speaking to his people, not the people. He has become or so it often seems the president of the united base of america. Peter, the problem with that is all the people are going to read at least part of what comes out on thursday. Yeah, but were in an era of polarization where weve seen time and time again that people are pretty locked into their views, right . This is president who has shifted in his public Approval Rating outside of his band of about 10 points since his presidency. People have already decided. And i think what you might see here is a lot of people will find validation in their view in the Mueller Report one way or another. Therell be people critical of the president who will pick on pick out particular episodes or facts and revelations in this report and say ahhah this shows what weve been saying all along. And there are people on the president s side saying they dont have the goods, this is all part of this made up thing the president has been talking about. So the question is whether the Mueller Report changes that dynamic. Right now after two years of the Trump Presidency we havent seen a lot of indications that people are open to moving one way or the other. Kimberley i have a two part for you. One is this, the president on twitter dog days of august 2018 on the white House Counsel. I allowed all white house staff to fully cooperate with the special counsel. In addition we readily gave over 1 million pages of documents, most transparent in history. No collusion, no obstruction, witch hunt. And then five days later im going to play you this from an interview with fox news. People make up stories. This whole thing about flipping, they call it. I know all about flipping for the 30, 40 years ive been watching flippers. Everything is wonderful and then they get ten years in jail and then they flip on whoever the next highest one is or as high you could go. It almost out to be outlawed. Its not fair. Kimberley, never minding the fact hes the first president to question turning states witnesses for an illegal act, is this the behavior those feds at the top of our broadcast were talking about . It definitely is. I mean this is president who above all likes to protect himself and wants the people around him to protect him. Hes really made no secret of that. Think about the entire tenure of former attorney general Jeff Sessions. It was the president lamenting the fact Jeff Sessions recused himself. Folks have seen how the president reacts to people who dont give him information detrimental to him even while telling the truth to federal prosecutors. I dont think that matters that much to the president. I think one thing im looking out for and well see when this report comes out is just how attorney general barr is perform in the president s eye. Will there be a lot of redactions . Will he try to minimize the amount of potentially embarrassing information or negative information that is contained in this report . I mean that certainly will spur a fight certainly with the democrats in congress. Or will he release a fairly transparent report that contains a lot of negative information and how the president will react to him after we saw the way he treated Jeff Sessions. Robert costa . Here is why don mcgahn matters. Based on my reporting the president is searching for his socalled roy cohn leaned on don mcgahn many times in the white house hoping he would act as almost the president s personal lawyer. But of course mcgahn whos a white House Counsel was a lawyer for the institution of the presidency. And when he sat down with Robert Mueller he was walking through all of the president s behaviors and conducts throughout the time he was with him, with regard to his interactions with the department of justice. What mcgahn detailed for Robert Mueller will be the utmost importance for congress as they read this report. Does it rise to the threshold of impeachment . Does it become obstruction of justice in their eyes even if the department of justice chose not to prosecute . Robert, i do marvel at the show you host, Washington Week, because at some point you have to blow the whistle and declare each given week over. That having been established, talk to me about this Washington Week. Will this still be an overwhelming topic on friday . Will this still dominate monday, the day after Easter Sunday . Is this going to have unlimited shelf life anyway or is it content dependent . You have to Pay Attention to not just what happens after the political bomb of this report, at least the version that were going to see is dropped. What happens afterwards merchandise but for for example next tuesday larry hogan the governor of maryland heading to New Hampshire. Bill well just jumping into the president ial race. Are there any republican cracks as they look at new examples of the president s conduct and the possible impeachment on the horizon, or do they all fall in line with the president . Are they with him for a political war in the days ahead . And for the democrats do they really want the make the choice for Speaker Pelosi to focus on this through the rest of 2019 or do they also want to focus on economic issues. Speaker pelosi has a choice to make about how to proceed. And kim, you know whats going to happen either way. By thursday night all eyes are going to be focused and a lot of questions are going to be tossed to the democrats in the house. Oh, absolutely. I think what we mentioned earlier, what peter said earlier about this being in some ways very much a political document. We know that nancy pelosi set the bar really high for impeachment. And we know that Robert Mueller did not make any recommendation that charges be brought even in obstruction, whether there is some evidence that could prove that. So what were going to see are the democrats and the white house take this report and use it to further their own political messages in large part. We will see investigations spur from any information that comes out of this as well. So this is just the beginning of what would be a very difficult week. I dont envy bob having the job of calling when the week is over. No, that makes two of us. Hey, peter baker, im going to give you the last word. I need you to make a bold faced political prediction. Because you have summed up presidencies for a living. Will this be the defining document . Will this be the defiernining d for this presidency . Its oa great question. Its certainly the most anticipated report washington has seen or waited for since probably for 20 years since the starr, late clinton era. It probably becomes one more big day among many big days, its hard to know. The problem for making a prediction like that is we dont know what action will follow, right . The report itself may be revelatory, may tell us things we dont know. But weve had two years, three years really of remarkable points but got overwhelmed by the next days rather extraordinary news. The question is whether this report changes the dynamics not just for the democrats but the republica republicans. Thats what nancy pelosi was saying. Thats the one to watch for on thursday. Not just what the democrats say, but what do the republicans say . Do they look at this with any concern or agree with the president this is good enough for exoneration . Thats why well be talking to all three of you along the way. As i say were in the eve of the eve of the reading of the report. Kimberley atkins, robert costa, peter baker, much obliged to the three of you for starting off our conversation on this tuesday night. Coming up for us, as those close to trump prepare for this thursday release of the redacted and color coded report, the risks that those other people may face. And later as donations for the restoration of the cathedral of notre dame pour in, were learning more about what was saved and what sadly has been lost to those flames forever. The 11th hour is just Getting Started on a tuesday night. Started on a tuesday night so, youre open all day, thats what 24 7 means, sugar. Kind of like how you get 24 7 access to licensed agents with geico. Hmm . Yeah, you just go online, or give them a call anytime. You dont say. Yep. Now what will it take to get 24 7 access to that lemon meringue pie . Pie pies coming thats what it takes, baby. Geico®. Great service from licensed agents, 24 7. Woman 1 this. Woman 2 . This. Man 1 . This is my body of proof. Man 2 proof of less joint pain. Woman 3 . And clearer skin. Man 3 proof that i can fight psoriatic arthritis. Woman 4 . With humira. Woman 5 humira targets and blocks a specific source of inflammation that contributes to both joint and skin symptoms. Its proven to help relieve pain, stop further irreversible joint damage, and clear skin in many adults. Humira is the number one prescribed biologic for psoriatic arthritis. avo humira can lower your ability to fight infections. Serious and sometimes fatal infections, including tuberculosis, and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened, as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. Tell your doctor if youve been to areas where certain fungal infections are common and if youve had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flulike symptoms or sores. Dont start humira if you have an infection. Woman 6 ask your rheumatologist about humira. Woman 7 go to mypsaproof. Com to see proof in action. While some white house staffers are as you heard us say waiting for the Mueller Report to drop with whats being called break down level anxiety, trumps legal team is gearing up for this fight. According to politico Rudolf Giuliani sent a text to their White House Reporter Darrell Samuelson at 2 54 a. M. Today about the lengths of the president s counter report saying it was, quote, now at 34 or 35 pages. The more concise, the better. 400 pages is a novel. Politico is also reporting on the Rapid Response strategy from the trump lawyers. Quote, jay sekulow said hell have a team of five to six people in place, each assigned a key section to read in parallel. The goal is preparing the quickest possible response to blast out to reporters as well as to brief him and Rudy Giuliani as they fan out to talk more at length in media interviews. If it were just one analyst reading, he said, wed be talking to you the next day, far too late for crisis management. Well, lets talk about it with our guest. Jessica roth, a former assistant for the u. S. Attorney for the Southern District of new york. These days a professor at the President Trump<\/a> for the 2020 gop nomination. And where so much was lost much was also saved. The president of france issues a bold challenge to his country. It now means moving quickly to raise a new notre dame from the ashes as the 11th hour gets under way on a tuesday night. And good evening once again from our nbc news headquarters here in new york. Day 817 of the trump administration. Just one day to go now before the release of the special counsels redacted report. Tonight new reporting from our nbc news colleagues reveals heightened anxiety among some former and Current White House<\/a> staff about what those findings might be. Quote, officials who cooperated with special Counsel Robert Mueller<\/a> are worried that the version of his report will expose them as the source of damaging information about president donald trump. Those staffers fear, quote, how trump and his allies will react if it appear tuesday be clear precisely who shared information with mueller. They got asked questions and told the truth, and now theyre worried the wrath will follow, one former white house official said. One source describes, quote, break down level anxiety among some current and former staffers who cooperated with the investigation at the direction of trumps legal team at the time. There is also concern that new facts in the report could be disclosed that do not reflect favorably on the president. Many of the white house Staff Members<\/a> who spoke with muellers team would most likely have been questioned about obstruction including but not limited to the firing of former fbi director james comey, the pressure on former attorney general Jeff Sessions<\/a> to step down. The attempt to get rid of special Counsel Robert Mueller<\/a>. Some of the top officials who were in trumps close orbit and who also spoke to mueller include but arent limited to white House Counsel<\/a> don mcgahn, former calms director hope hicks and the two former chiefs of staffs Reince Priebus<\/a> and john kelly. Like jared kushner, Sarah Sanders<\/a> listened in part to interviews. Mueller also interviewed james comey, Jeff Sessions<\/a>, former National Security<\/a> advisor mike flynn. A lot of names here. But former white House Counsel<\/a> don mcgahn might be the most potentially dangerous witness for the president. He reportedly met with muellers team for over 30 hours of testimony and witnessed some of the events that led to concerns about possible obstruction including efforts to get rid of mueller and sessions and the comey and flynn firings. Last year as mueller was in the middle of his inquiry mcgahn had this to say about his current job. I advise the president on a rage of issues from constitutional law, executive power, whether or not we can go to war, judicial selection, administrative law. And that involves you in just about everything . Unfortunately, yes. And axios recently reported on what mcgahn had to say to about 40 Senior Republican Senate<\/a> aides earlier this month. Quote, i spent the last couple of years getting yelled at, and you may soon read about some of the more spirited debates i had with the president. Axios goes onto say mcgahn didnt explicitly mention muellers report but sources in the room said they understood him to be referring to it when he said this. Todays reporting that white house staffers are worried about whats about to be revealed takes on a new dimension given trumps continued attacks on the special counsel inquiry. Law enforcement veterans say this continues to remind them of what theyve heard from organized crime figures. This doesnt feel like a president looking at an investigation to me. It reminds me of a case i did as a prosecutor, a dixie a mafia case. As witnesses came into the government and truthfully testified he in one case put a hit out, in other cases sent back his displeasure. And the president is acting much more like a mob boss than he is as a president to the extercht hes questioning people in his organization who truthfully testify when theyre called in front of a grand jury or speak with federal prosecutors. It just says so much about the mob mentality of the president and the white house that people are scared about exactly as matt says, just doing what they had to do under the law. We have an attorney general who seems to be serving as a consigliere for the mob boss, the president. Our nbc News White House<\/a> unit tells us trumps attorneys met today again to prepare for this Mueller Report<\/a>. A source says relevant white house staff will continue to meet ahead of the thursday release. And the president continues to try to shape Public Opinion<\/a> as he waits for whatever new revelations may be on the way. Its a total phony. I dont have to say that i mean, you just take a look at the conclusion. I heard its going to come out on thursday. Thats good. And there cant be anything there because there was no crime. There was no anything. The crime was committed by the other side. This crime was all made up. It was all a fabrication. With that lets bring in our guests on a tuesday night. Kimberley atkins. Robert costa, National Political<\/a> reporter for the Washington Post<\/a> and moderator of Washington Week<\/a> on pbs. And peter baker, chief White House Correspondent<\/a> for the new york times. Good evening gang and welcome to you all. And robert, id like to begin with you. Were at the eve of the eve of the release of this report. Give me some color, some atmospherics, some moods from inside the Trump White House<\/a> including the president himself. Talking to white house officials, witnesses for the mueller probe, attorneys for witnesses who went inside, listened to all the questions from Robert Mueller<\/a>s team, there is anxiety. And it is anxiety that goes all the way back to that original decision by the president s former lawyers john dowd and ty cobb to cooperate, to not use executive privilege before the grand jury. And because of that decision years ago now all of these people in the president s orbit theyre wondering tonight what about the president s conduct and possible obstruction of justice will be detailed in this report. Peter baker you have a report on the times website tonight about how the president has led as the leader of his people not necessarily all people, ill read you back part of your work, and you really ought to consider becoming a writer. This reads, the oldfashioned idea that a president once reaching office should at least pretend to be the leader of all the people these days seems so, well, oldfashioned. Mr. Trump does not bother with the pretense. He is speaking to his people, not the people. He has become or so it often seems the president of the united base of america. Peter, the problem with that is all the people are going to read at least part of what comes out on thursday. Yeah, but were in an era of polarization where weve seen time and time again that people are pretty locked into their views, right . This is president who has shifted in his public Approval Rating<\/a> outside of his band of about 10 points since his presidency. People have already decided. And i think what you might see here is a lot of people will find validation in their view in the Mueller Report<\/a> one way or another. Therell be people critical of the president who will pick on pick out particular episodes or facts and revelations in this report and say ahhah this shows what weve been saying all along. And there are people on the president s side saying they dont have the goods, this is all part of this made up thing the president has been talking about. So the question is whether the Mueller Report<\/a> changes that dynamic. Right now after two years of the Trump Presidency<\/a> we havent seen a lot of indications that people are open to moving one way or the other. Kimberley i have a two part for you. One is this, the president on twitter dog days of august 2018 on the white House Counsel<\/a>. I allowed all white house staff to fully cooperate with the special counsel. In addition we readily gave over 1 million pages of documents, most transparent in history. No collusion, no obstruction, witch hunt. And then five days later im going to play you this from an interview with fox news. People make up stories. This whole thing about flipping, they call it. I know all about flipping for the 30, 40 years ive been watching flippers. Everything is wonderful and then they get ten years in jail and then they flip on whoever the next highest one is or as high you could go. It almost out to be outlawed. Its not fair. Kimberley, never minding the fact hes the first president to question turning states witnesses for an illegal act, is this the behavior those feds at the top of our broadcast were talking about . It definitely is. I mean this is president who above all likes to protect himself and wants the people around him to protect him. Hes really made no secret of that. Think about the entire tenure of former attorney general Jeff Sessions<\/a>. It was the president lamenting the fact Jeff Sessions<\/a> recused himself. Folks have seen how the president reacts to people who dont give him information detrimental to him even while telling the truth to federal prosecutors. I dont think that matters that much to the president. I think one thing im looking out for and well see when this report comes out is just how attorney general barr is perform in the president s eye. Will there be a lot of redactions . Will he try to minimize the amount of potentially embarrassing information or negative information that is contained in this report . I mean that certainly will spur a fight certainly with the democrats in congress. Or will he release a fairly transparent report that contains a lot of negative information and how the president will react to him after we saw the way he treated Jeff Sessions<\/a>. Robert costa . Here is why don mcgahn matters. Based on my reporting the president is searching for his socalled roy cohn leaned on don mcgahn many times in the white house hoping he would act as almost the president s personal lawyer. But of course mcgahn whos a white House Counsel<\/a> was a lawyer for the institution of the presidency. And when he sat down with Robert Mueller<\/a> he was walking through all of the president s behaviors and conducts throughout the time he was with him, with regard to his interactions with the department of justice. What mcgahn detailed for Robert Mueller<\/a> will be the utmost importance for congress as they read this report. Does it rise to the threshold of impeachment . Does it become obstruction of justice in their eyes even if the department of justice chose not to prosecute . Robert, i do marvel at the show you host, Washington Week<\/a>, because at some point you have to blow the whistle and declare each given week over. That having been established, talk to me about this Washington Week<\/a>. Will this still be an overwhelming topic on friday . Will this still dominate monday, the day after Easter Sunday<\/a> . Is this going to have unlimited shelf life anyway or is it content dependent . You have to Pay Attention<\/a> to not just what happens after the political bomb of this report, at least the version that were going to see is dropped. What happens afterwards merchandise but for for example next tuesday larry hogan the governor of maryland heading to New Hampshire<\/a>. Bill well just jumping into the president ial race. Are there any republican cracks as they look at new examples of the president s conduct and the possible impeachment on the horizon, or do they all fall in line with the president . Are they with him for a political war in the days ahead . And for the democrats do they really want the make the choice for Speaker Pelosi<\/a> to focus on this through the rest of 2019 or do they also want to focus on economic issues. Speaker pelosi has a choice to make about how to proceed. And kim, you know whats going to happen either way. By thursday night all eyes are going to be focused and a lot of questions are going to be tossed to the democrats in the house. Oh, absolutely. I think what we mentioned earlier, what peter said earlier about this being in some ways very much a political document. We know that nancy pelosi set the bar really high for impeachment. And we know that Robert Mueller<\/a> did not make any recommendation that charges be brought even in obstruction, whether there is some evidence that could prove that. So what were going to see are the democrats and the white house take this report and use it to further their own political messages in large part. We will see investigations spur from any information that comes out of this as well. So this is just the beginning of what would be a very difficult week. I dont envy bob having the job of calling when the week is over. No, that makes two of us. Hey, peter baker, im going to give you the last word. I need you to make a bold faced political prediction. Because you have summed up presidencies for a living. Will this be the defining document . Will this be the defiernining d for this presidency . Its oa great question. Its certainly the most anticipated report washington has seen or waited for since probably for 20 years since the starr, late clinton era. It probably becomes one more big day among many big days, its hard to know. The problem for making a prediction like that is we dont know what action will follow, right . The report itself may be revelatory, may tell us things we dont know. But weve had two years, three years really of remarkable points but got overwhelmed by the next days rather extraordinary news. The question is whether this report changes the dynamics not just for the democrats but the republica republicans. Thats what nancy pelosi was saying. Thats the one to watch for on thursday. Not just what the democrats say, but what do the republicans say . Do they look at this with any concern or agree with the president this is good enough for exoneration . Thats why well be talking to all three of you along the way. As i say were in the eve of the eve of the reading of the report. Kimberley atkins, robert costa, peter baker, much obliged to the three of you for starting off our conversation on this tuesday night. Coming up for us, as those close to trump prepare for this thursday release of the redacted and color coded report, the risks that those other people may face. And later as donations for the restoration of the cathedral of notre dame pour in, were learning more about what was saved and what sadly has been lost to those flames forever. The 11th hour is just Getting Started<\/a> on a tuesday night. Started on a tuesday night so, youre open all day, thats what 24 7 means, sugar. Kind of like how you get 24 7 access to licensed agents with geico. Hmm . Yeah, you just go online, or give them a call anytime. You dont say. Yep. Now what will it take to get 24 7 access to that lemon meringue pie . Pie pies coming thats what it takes, baby. Geico\u00ae. Great service from licensed agents, 24 7. Woman 1 this. Woman 2 . This. Man 1 . This is my body of proof. Man 2 proof of less joint pain. Woman 3 . And clearer skin. Man 3 proof that i can fight psoriatic arthritis. Woman 4 . With humira. Woman 5 humira targets and blocks a specific source of inflammation that contributes to both joint and skin symptoms. Its proven to help relieve pain, stop further irreversible joint damage, and clear skin in many adults. Humira is the number one prescribed biologic for psoriatic arthritis. avo humira can lower your ability to fight infections. Serious and sometimes fatal infections, including tuberculosis, and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened, as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. Tell your doctor if youve been to areas where certain fungal infections are common and if youve had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flulike symptoms or sores. Dont start humira if you have an infection. Woman 6 ask your rheumatologist about humira. Woman 7 go to mypsaproof. Com to see proof in action. While some white house staffers are as you heard us say waiting for the Mueller Report<\/a> to drop with whats being called break down level anxiety, trumps legal team is gearing up for this fight. According to politico Rudolf Giuliani<\/a> sent a text to their White House Reporter<\/a> Darrell Samuelson<\/a> at 2 54 a. M. Today about the lengths of the president s counter report saying it was, quote, now at 34 or 35 pages. The more concise, the better. 400 pages is a novel. Politico is also reporting on the Rapid Response<\/a> strategy from the trump lawyers. Quote, jay sekulow said hell have a team of five to six people in place, each assigned a key section to read in parallel. The goal is preparing the quickest possible response to blast out to reporters as well as to brief him and Rudy Giuliani<\/a> as they fan out to talk more at length in media interviews. If it were just one analyst reading, he said, wed be talking to you the next day, far too late for crisis management. Well, lets talk about it with our guest. Jessica roth, a former assistant for the u. S. Attorney for the Southern District<\/a> of new york. These days a professor at the Cardoza School<\/a> of law. Also back tonight, jeffrey kramer, former assistant u. S. Attorney for the Northern District<\/a> of illinois and former manhattan assistant da now with the Berkeley Research<\/a> group. Good evening to you both. Jessica, id like to begin with you. How do you write a counter report without having seen what youre countering . So thats a great question. I imagine that they are preparing much as one might prepare as a prosecutor to make a rebuttal after your Closing Argument<\/a> and then the Closing Argument<\/a> by defense koucounsel. Do you relitigate everything and retell the story . Cuply not. In fact you get less time to do your rebuttal than in your primary closing. But you know what the key issues are that you anticipate the defense is going to raise and your key issues are. I imagine the defense team knows what the points are they want to hit most clearly and theyre going to talk about no matter whats in the report and the things theyre going to be looking for theyre going to be looking for in the report. Theyre in a sense going into their reading primed for what their looking for. I dont mean to sound snarky but i heard the president he was completely exonerated. He did say that. That is apparently not what mr. Mueller said in the report. So i gather one assumes there would be at least some information disclosed on thursday thats not flatter to the president and that is not consist with a total exoneration. So jeffrey, if we are to believe all the reporting that the white house has not received, a, the document, b, a summary, or c, a heads up on major findings, there has to be a healthy organic amount of fear in that trump legal team, whatever the 35 to 40 page document theyve prepared. I think thats right. And i think jessicas spot on when she gives the analogy of a rebuttal. You can prepare some things and those things are being repaired in stock answers. And there is a bit of leeway theyre going to need to fill in the gaps. But there is fear of the unknown. Specifically what is the attorney general going to redact, grand jury material, things that touch on other investigations, and also he said things that could hurt another individuals reputation, which is pretty broad interpretation. So they dont know exactly whats going to be in this. It may only be 250 or 300 pages of the original 400. So theyre going to be counter punching a little bit. Jessica, this president is shall we say different. So its human nature to have specific concerns. If you went before mueller and his team and you said things that were actionable, you said things that became eyewitness testimony and maybe spoke to obstruction of justice, will the report out people by name . Will the report go out of its way to try to cloud their identity . We dont know how special counsel mueller wrote the report in terms of whether hes going to be explicit about witness identities or if hes going to cloak them a little bit. Its pretty easy to cloak the identity of witnesses if its important to do so. And we saw that for example in special counsel muellers indictment against roger stone. Where members of the Trump Organization<\/a> was referred to obliquely as senior members who directed stone to get in touch with wikileaks. So thats the kind of thing you can do to make reference to somebody without identifying them specifically by name. And prosecutors take witnesses concerns seriously. And its often a concern of witnesses when they provide damaging information about people, especially people to whom they were once loyal. They are concerned about anger and retaliation of all kinds. And prosecutors take that so seriously that sometimes prosecutors are willing to enter into a plea agreement with the defendant before those witness identities have to be disclosed so they can continue to protect those witnesses. Whats unusual here is not that the witnesses are concerned about retaliation but that were talking about the president of the United States<\/a> and what kinds of retaliation he might be capable of, individually and because of his office. And if memory serves retaliating against a witness is a federal crime. That is a crime. Wed get back into the quagmire of whether a sitting president can be indicted, however. Oh, boy. Jeffrey, how worried should members of the trump family be . Ive seen many an attorney go to their cable grave predicting that deejay t. J. Don, jr. Was going to get invited. How could this report change their fortune . It depends if any of those data points that lead a possible case have been referred to in another district, either virginia or new york. Certainly the cohen case where he was talking about lies that were told about the moskowtrump project, well others told the same lies to congress. So youd think don, jr. And others are having some sleepless nights. However, to be frank youd think they were having sleepless nights for a while if they thought about this. So it may just be water off a ducks back. Are the investigations going on about the Trump Organization<\/a>s and the Deutsche Bank<\/a> subpoenas . I think thats going to hit the family members a little bit harder than this might. Do you think by this Time Thursday<\/a> night a lot of it questions and concerns people had about Robert Mueller<\/a> will be answered . I think some of them will pea answered but absolutely not all of them. I think this report may end up looking like swiss cheese. Theres going to be a lot of unanswered question. I agree there will be a lot of unanswered questions. Im curious to see what the color coded looks like because that will frame the battles going forward. That makes two of us. Our thanks to two terrific former feds. Jessica roth, jeffrey kramer, thank you both for coming on and explaining so much. Coming up as we count down the hours to this release of the Mueller Report<\/a>, the president is stepping up his attacks on whatever it says really. When we come back. Says really. When we come back. Lets be honest. Its kind of unfair that safe drivers have to pay as much for insurance. As not safe drivers ah that was a stunt driver. Thats why esurance has this drivesense\u00ae app. The safer you drive, the more you save. Dont worry, im not using my phone and talking to a camera while driving. Im being towed. By the way, im actually a safe driver. Im just pretending to be a not safe driver. Cool. 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President trump is revving his attacks up on the russia investigation ahead of the Mueller Report<\/a> release. He woke up this morning, fired off some vintage no collusion, no obstruction tweets and called the investigation the greatest scam with a capital s in political history. The editors over that the bullwark one of which joins us in a moment posed these questions. If the report includes no evidence of wrongdoing why the renewed attacks on mule snr why the disquiet among the president s inner circle . Here with us tonight philip rucker, pulitzer prizewinning bureau chief for the Washington Post<\/a> and the man who can and does use the word disquiet in a sentence. Bill crystal and editor at large of the aforementioned bulwark. Id like to start you off with a general question. Its tuesday night already. Where do you see this going . What kind of magnitude do you expect in this report . It strikes me what the president and his team seem to be expecting. It was 3 1 2 weeks ago barr released his summary. And the president and his team decided to play it as victory. No collusion, as he says. Complete vindication. Yes, complete exoneration and vindication. And they took their victory lap. If they didnt think this report had a lot of pretty damaging stuff in it, wouldnt they just have stuck to that . Didnt they find out something between the barr letter and today that has made them go back on the offensive against mueller, against the report, preparing the counter report with people being quoted on the record. Jay sekulow you sust played. Does that sound like a bunch of people confident theyre going to be exonerated or vindicated or whether theyre going to have to desperately fight back . Bill barr had orally briefed the white House Counsel<\/a>, and i do think it was after that suddenly the white house went back into attack mode. So i think theres some pretty damaging information in that report. Phil rucker, are they hoping for the cover and the distraction starting with holy thursday, good friday, Easter Sunday<\/a>, passover, all the while that this Holiday Weekend<\/a> will bring . Yeah, well, brian, it certainly is helpful timing for the president for this report to be falling on a Holiday Weekend<\/a>. And we shouldnt put it past him to create other distractions. Weve seen this before when a damaging news story will occur, President Trump<\/a> will often try to shift the spotlight to the left or to the right or follow down some rabbit holes to distract and pull attention away. But clearly theres anxiety in the trump orbit. And clearly theres a calculation that this report cannot possibly be better than that barr letter because you cant get any better than that barr letter. So inevitably theres going to be something here more nuanced if not truly derogatory and damaging for the president. Bill, ive asked other guests this before. There must be some damaging pain in this for you. Bill barr was part of the aristocracy of the Republican Party<\/a>. He was a bush era republican rule of law guy, and now we see what appears to be an alleyoop. He has tossed the ball up where its just poised for a jam. Hes giving the president a favor of allowing the president to campaign on, you know, being totally clear. Yeah, his view is that he stays within the four corners of the law i suspect it would be. But i expect to give his own interpretation, and he did that. Hes a loyal member of the president s cabinet and he did that. I would say if the report is there intact and reasonably redacted i think i would give him a fair amount and i think it wont matter much. The letter will come out in an obscure footnote if we have 300 pages or 400 pages with some names and letters obscured. But especially on obstruction of justice we know mueller himself you cant charge the president so we go to congress presumably. He just chose to leave that to congress. But nonetheless think about how much evidence for a cautious prosecutor like bob mueller or at least id say very responsible prosecutor like bob mueller to say this report does not exonerate the president . Phil rucker, like the white House Counsel<\/a>s office, all of our news organizations are going to be reading this in teams so we can get an early sense of just whats in it. How soon on thursday do you expect the kind of collective focus especially if the washington based media to go to the democrats on the hill . Pretty soon. I think it depends, brian, on how much toner we use in our copy machines to print out this report. And what i mean by that is how many redactions there are. I think if this is heavily redacted and you cant really pull behind the curtains so to speak in reading this report, then theres going to be immediately be a fight on capitol hill with the democrats demanding more information, demanding the full report from the just department. However, its worth noting that congress will be out of session. So the sort of fight with capitol hill is going to take a little bit more time to percolate and to develop simply because the members are not going to be here in washington. Itll be more difficult for the leaders, for pelosi and schumer to really coordinate a consensus opinion within the ranks of the democratic party. Bernie sanders and bill weld. Well explain after this. L weld well explain after this naysayer said no one would subscribe to a car the way they subscribe to movies. We dont follow the naysayers. Since my dvt blood clot i was thinking. Could there be another around the corner . Or could it turn out differently . 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Do not take ozempic\u00ae if you have a personal or Family History<\/a> of medullary thyroid cancer, multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2, or if you are allergic to ozempic\u00ae. Stop taking ozempic\u00ae and get medical help right away if you get a lump or swelling in your neck, severe stomach pain, itching, rash, or trouble breathing. Serious side effects may happen, including pancreatitis. Tell your doctor if you have Diabetic Retinopathy<\/a> or vision changes. Taking ozempic\u00ae with a sulfonylurea or insulin may increase the risk for low blood sugar. Common side effects are nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, stomach pain, and constipation. Some side effects can lead to dehydration, which may worsen kidney problems. I discovered the potential with ozempic\u00ae. Oh oh oh ozempic\u00ae ask your Healthcare Provider<\/a> today about onceweekly ozempic\u00ae. Conventional wisdom says you cant make a 400 horsepower sedan, thats also environmentally conscious. We dont follow conventional wisdom. I guess on fox news you told people i benefitted from trumps tax bill. Sure, you did benefit from it. But i voted against it. I have to say this is not a criticism of fox. This is criticism of media in general. Theres too much focus on individuals and not enough focus on the american people. I do want to say we understand and were very grateful youre here. We are giving you an hour and substance and talk on your air ways, so we can get over the fox thing. That was very interesting. They are nice people. They are not lion and lion eess yet it felt like a man had walked into the lions den and President Trump<\/a> could not seem it get over the fox thing he called it after Bernie Sanders<\/a> became the only democratic primary candidate so far to spar with fox news hosts in a tonhwn hall setting. Trump lamented it this way. So weird to watch crazy bernie on fox news. Not surprisingly bretbair, and trumps use of we there did not go unnoticed. As hally jackson pointed out the president s words seem to echo another fox news personality. Heading into the 2020 election you saw crazy bernie on the air tonight. That was hard to watch. Bernie sanders for two hours. Wow. So you see there. And late tonight more complaints from donald trump including this. Many trump fans signs, some rare capital letters there, were outside the fox news studio last night for the interview with crazy burn sernie sanders. Stuffed with bernie supporters. Whats with fox news . Remaining with us tonight phil rucker and bill crystal. Bernie tweeted back tonight, it looks like President Trump<\/a> is scared of our campaign, he should be. First of all did bernie do the right thing in going inside the confines of nox news . Its reported today buttigieg is considering those confines of fox news. What are democratic primary voters looking for . Someone who can stand up to trump. Whats the closest you can do now to stand up to trump, stand up to fox news. I dont think personally sanders would be the best democratic nominee, but, you know, if youre looking for a fighter and someone who can hold his own, watching sanders handle bret baier and the crowd coming out on sanders side on some issues i think you think, gee, sanders did pret well. Anything unusual stand out to you about this social media tirade . Yeah, brian. I think it shows President Trump<\/a> is threatened by what happened on fox news last night and for a couple of reasons. Not only is Bernie Sanders<\/a> going onto trumps preferred network, sort of the state Media Network<\/a> for the Trump Organization<\/a> but trump state pennsylvania. Its the Big Industrial<\/a> state trump carried in 2016, the one he feels an emotional connection to. Its the one hes determined to try and win again in 2020. And there is is Bernie Sanders<\/a> in beth ham, pennsylvania, with fox news getting a very favorable response from the crowd assembled there. It tells us two things. It tells us Bernie Sanders<\/a> is trying to compete with white voters who lifted trump to the top with that populous message and shows that trump is worried about it. I want to play for you, bill, an interview tonight with a republican in the primary race against the president. This is bill weld just tonight. Well talk about it on the other side. I think a lot of permanent damage is being done to our country if nothing changes the ark of the last two years. If we have six more years of spending ourselves into bankruptcy without a thought about it and insulting our allies and eroding our military alliances abroad and cozying up to dictators and insulting everyone whos part of our latticework of defense, theres no limit to the damage that can be done. So bill crystal, a couple points here. 73 years old, last won a political race 25 years ago during the clinton administration. Those points, if you close your eyes were points a traditional republican used to make before the era of trump. Would he have been the republican you would have drafted to primary the president , or does he open the door and say come on in, the waters fine, you can survive this . He turns to the coldwater and i think he would expect if the water does get a little finer, if he shows some vulnerabilities, others would be stronger candidates presumably a Current Governor<\/a> like larry hogan, current members of congress could get in. But bill weld has basically said that ill tell you as someone whos wanted a republican challenger to challenge donald trump just as you said it my heart gave a little hippityhop there. I think someone might do it, but even if bill weld isnt the ideal candidate to do it, the fact hes doing it may mean something. And lets see if he gets some momentum, contributions, gets some crowd, gets under some Trump Supporters<\/a> in New Hampshire<\/a>. To bills point there, is this the white house will Pay Attention<\/a> to this because the president is being primaried per se because its bill weld or because it could lead to more . I think for all three reasons, brian. Bill weld will have a very difficult road to actually winning the republican nomination, but this is something we know trump and his advisers are paying close attention to. Theres an effort under way by the trump reelection to campaign to stack these Party Committees<\/a> into states in advance of the nominating convention in 2020 in the summer of 2020 to make it so much more difficult for any kind of challenger to rest a nomination from President Trump<\/a>, to establish these bureaucratic roadblocks. And thats because there are concern about a challenge. I think they would more concerned if there was a candidate like bill weld to get into the race. There will be some sort of audience out there for him. And probably New Hampshire<\/a> is probably the best place than any to start. Bill i i will join you in being shocked hat anything that happens in modern day politics. We could easily fill an hour. Philip rucker, bill crystal, thank you so much. Coming up, there are two ways to look at yesterdays fire that robbed the modern world of a landmark for the ages. The french president has chosen his way of looking at it. Chose his way of looking at it itso chantix can help you quit slow turkey. Along with support, chantix is proven to help you quit. With chantix you can keep smoking at first and ease into quitting. Chantix reduces the urge so when the day arrives, youll be more ready to kiss cigarettes goodbye. When you try to quit smoking, with or without chantix, you may have nicotine withdrawal symptoms. Stop chantix and get help right away if you have changes in behavior or thinking, aggression, hostility, depressed mood, suicidal thoughts or actions, seizures, new or worse heart or blood vessel problems, sleepwalking, or lifethreatening allergic and skin reactions. Decrease alcohol use. Use caution driving or operating machinery. Tell your doctor if youve had Mental Health<\/a> problems. The most common side effect is nausea. Quit smoking slow turkey. Talk to your doctor about chantix. Hey, who are you . Oh, hey jeff, im a car thief. What . im here to steal your car because, well, thats my job. What . What . . What . laughing what . . What . what . [crash] what . haha, it happens. And if youve got cutrate car insurance, paying for this could feel like getting robbed twice. So get allstate. And be better protected from mayhem. Like me. Church bells sounded across the world today in solidarity with the cathedral of notre dame in paris. With daybreak today and now the next daybreak tomorrow and about an hour in paris, it became clear that there are two ways to look at the fire at notre dame. For starters the aerial pictures are down right sickening because they show a global treasure now burned and wide open to the elements. But then there are the pictures from ground level showing what was saved, what endured and what remains including the interior. Back to those two ways of looking at it. Theres the tragedy of what was lost, not just to paris or catholics but to our civilization. But theres also the realization that it could have been a lot worse. Right here we owe a big thanks to allen from axios. The cross and inmain alter are intact, many artifacts are saved. The famous bells will sound again, and the church organ among some of the oldest Musical Instruments<\/a> in the world appears to have largely made it. We dont yet have a tally on whats gone and cant be replaced, but we know it includes this. The church attic, timbers dating back to the year 1200. Then there are the firefighters. Some heroic videos surfaced on french media today as did the tragic detail that a fire alarm first sounded inside the cathedral 23 minutes earlier, and after a fire official on site found no problem initially, it wasnt until a second alarm sounded that there was visible fire that could then not be stopped. The cause is still listed as accidental. They are still gathering evidence. French president macron today called for the replacement to be built in five years time. And make no mistake, that would be a herculean near miracle effort. He said today translated from the original french, we can do this. There is a 3d laser scan of the cathedral that was done by a historian who has since passed away. The gift he left behind will at least help. So will donations which will no doubt top a billion dollars by weeks end. That includes a pledge of 100,000 from notre dames namesake here in the u. S. The university of notre dame in southbend, indiana. Another break for us. And coming up, responding to a global consensus that theres too much bad news one of our colleagues here has gone and done something about it. Done somethi angbout it. When you retire will you or will you just be you, without the constraints of a full time job . You can grow your Retirement Savings<\/a> with pacific life and create the future thats most meaningful to you. Which means you can retire, without retiring from life. Having the flexibility to retire on your terms. Thats the power of pacific. Ask your financial professional about pacific life today. I can do more to lower my a1c. Because my body can still make its own insulin. And i take trulicity once a week to activate my body to release it, like its supposed to. Trulicity is not insulin. It starts acting in my body from the first dose and continues to work when i need it, 24 7. Trulicity is an injection to improve blood sugar in adults with type 2 diabetes when used with diet and exercise. Dont use it as the first medicine to treat diabetes, or if you have type 1 diabetes or diabetic ketoacidosis. Dont take trulicity if you or your family have medullary thyroid cancer, youre allergic to trulicity, or have multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. Stop trulicity and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of a serious allergic reaction, a lump or swelling in your neck, or severe stomach pain. Serious side effects may include pancreatitis. Taking trulicity with a sulfonylurea or insulin increases your low blood sugar risk. Common side effects include nausea, diarrhea, vomiting, abdominal pain, and decreased appetite. These can lead to dehydration, which may worsen kidney problems. I choose onceweekly trulicity to activate my within. If you need help lowering your a1c, ask your doctor about onceweekly trulicity. Each day justin at work. Walk. And after work. He does it all with dr. Scholls. Only dr. Scholls has massaging gel insoles that provide allday comfort. To keep him feeling more energized. Dr. Scholls. Born to move. Into your own little world. K especially these days. dad i think its here. mom vo especially at this age. big sister where are we going . mom vo its a big, beautiful world out there. little sister woah. big sister wow. See that . mom vo sometimes you just need a little help seeing it. vo presenting the allnew threerow subaru ascent. Love is now bigger than ever. When youre volunteering, its not my job. R thats because right where you live, theres a need for your time and skills and effort and talent. Please consider volunteering and feeling that feeling that you helped someone today. The last thing before we go tonight, for those of you who dont know the story of our friend and colleague katy tur and because shes a veteran Television Reporter<\/a> heres the television version. So a couple years back shes a Foreign Correspondent<\/a> for nbc news based in london. She flies back to new york basically on a day trip invited by the make a Wish Foundation<\/a> to fulfill the wish of a sick child. While shes back here in new york the boss spots her and send\\her a few blocks down fifth avenue to interview trump. At this point in television where time is of the essence we would fast forward to katie tur staying in this country covering the trump campaign, never going back to london except to get her stuff. Trump gets elected, the campaigns over, katie finds indoor work. She meet a guy named tony and she falls in love. They get a house, and that brings us today, news of the happy arrival of theodore known as teddy. And we couldnt be happier. And special thanks to our friend katie for quite literally delivering some great news around here. That is our broadcast on this tuesday night. Thank you so much for being here with us. Good night from nbc news headquarters in new york. The Republican Party<\/a> pulled off a rare electoral feat in 1988 when they were able to elect a president from their own party after Ronald Reagan<\/a> had just served his two terms as well. Usually voters are in the mood to turf","publisher":{"@type":"Organization","name":"archive.org","logo":{"@type":"ImageObject","width":"800","height":"600","url":"\/\/ia803004.us.archive.org\/1\/items\/MSNBCW_20190417_030000_The_11th_Hour_With_Brian_Williams\/MSNBCW_20190417_030000_The_11th_Hour_With_Brian_Williams.thumbs\/MSNBCW_20190417_030000_The_11th_Hour_With_Brian_Williams_000001.jpg"}},"autauthor":{"@type":"Organization"},"author":{"sameAs":"archive.org","name":"archive.org"}}],"coverageEndTime":"20240617T12:35:10+00:00"}