Transcripts For MSNBCW The 11th Hour With Brian Williams 202

Of interest in custody that was wounded in the incident. Here is what we heard in an emotional appearance by the Boulder Police chief. At 14 30 hours the Police Department began receiving phone calls of shots fired in the area. And a phone call about a possible person with a patrol rifle. Officer tally responded to the scene and was the first on the scene and he was fatally shot. I also want to commend the heroic actions of the officers responding not only from boulder pd, but across the county and other parts of this region. That was the police chief from just a few minutes a ago. For more on this. Im joined by telephone by steven fenberg. He is the Senate Majority leader in colorado, a Democratic State senator representing this district. Senator, i dont know how much your state is supposed to take, we already associate beautiful places like columbine and aurora with Mass Shootings, now your district i heard you say this is your supermarket and short distance from the middle school where your wife is a teacher . Thats right, thanks for having me brian. This is obviously shocking, unfortunately, it feels like our world is turned up side down in a million ways over the last year. It seems like we are getting back to normal and unfortunately that means we are continuing to see Mass Shootings in the news around the country. And seems like its hit had my community tonight. But its nothing new for the country unfortunately. How do you begin to deal with not only the sadness but the stress . We have not publically identified, for good reason the names of the victims beyond the Police Officer, may he rest in peace. Because family members presumably are still being told. That means at select homes in your district, there are going to be vigils and visitors coming over and comforting perhaps your neighbors. Its sickening to think about that. This is a small community. People know boulder, colorado, its only 100,000 people. This is a close knit community. Tragedy like this when it happens, it touches all of us. And unfortunately for some, its coming very close to home tonight. You know, these were people that were just going to do their groceries. We were expecting a snow storm. And people were probably going to do their groceries to stock up on a few things before the storm hit and all of a sudden, their life was either sickeningly taken too early or changed forever. You know, i have heard stories of people that were in line to get their covid19 vaccine line in the pharmacy. And then the shooter appeared and took one of their lives. So, its incredibly infuriating. The thing people say is thoughts and prayers and they have got a heavy heart, i have all of that. But really this country needs action. And we have done quite a bit in colorado on gun violence reform. I think we are absolutely going to do more. But we need, we need national action. We need federal action. I urge the president and congress and the senate to think long and hard, this should not just be yet another shooting where we have thoughts and prayers and then move on. We all need to do something more. We need to pass policy. Some folks would say its too soon. But i would say its obviously, if you look at the news tonight. Its way too late. So, we have to act. We have to put that anger in to something constructive. And senator of course, it is starting tomorrow, this will be will folded in to the gun control debate across the country as will colorado status, i believe you are an open carry state, and how, is there any gauge of support for that, for the state, where it is in opinion polls, it is a tough freedom once awarded to gun owners to rescind. Its a good question, and its clear that people respect and appreciate the Second Amendment and its clear that people understand it has to come with limits in a society. And you know, we actually in colorado, for being a western state, maybe a traditionally libertarian leaning type of state, we have decent laws on the books. We have the extreme Risk Protection order a that was passed two years ago. To be honest, it does not infringe on peoples rights. It protects people in a Mental Health crisis from harming themselves or somebody close to them. So we have a magazine limit. You cant have a magazine for your weapon that is more than 15 rounds. We have good policies on books. You know, the ironic thing in a way is boulder had a city level assault weapons ban in city limits and that was passed a couple of years ago, and just five or six days ago, a court overturned it because of a state preemption, thats something were going to be looking at, i go back to work tomorrow at 9 00 a. M. And those are the conversations we will have to start having. What we can do on a state level that yes, respects the Second Amendment but also understands that in this world, we have a choice. We can decide to go on like normal and have these horrible incidences become more normal, we can get numb, or we can change it. We really, its one of those, its really not a difficult policy conversation in some ways. Its within our power to make some changes. And its something that im going continue working on with my colleagues but, we also at the same time, also need the federal government to act. Having a patchwork of laws around the state is better than nothing. The states that can act should act. But we need more aggressive action taken nationally. Final question speaks to how you get your head around this. I go to the Grocery Store every weekend, always have. Im picturing you at home, watching these pictures. Perhaps its right where you walk your cart back up to the store. Perhaps you were there saturday. Perhaps tonight, god forbid, you are going to learn thats somebody you know has lost their life and if not you, they are going to be friends of someone you know. It was briefly today an armed encampment where people walk up and return the carts and go in and come out was full of these Armored Vehicles and what looked like dismounted u. S. Military infantry. They were of course, multiple jurisdictional members of the police force. I dont for all of us who have not had tragedy visit where we live, i dont know how that trip to the food store will be the same. Well i dont think its ever going to be the same for anybody in the community when they go to the Grocery Store. Its unfortunately not a unique circumstance. I mean, theres people all over the country that have to think about that. I mean, there are a lot of people that cant go to a Movie Theater anymore. A colleague of mine representative tom sullivan, his son was tragically taken from him in the aurora theater shooting. I cannot imagine going to a movie if i were him. These are normal things that every american should have the right to do casually and not think twice about. Maybe if you think about getting the whole milk or organic milk, but when you go to the Grocery Store, you should not be thinking is something horrific going to happen on that trip. So nobody bounces back to where they were when they go through Something Like this. I was not personally touched as far as i know. To be totally honest, brian, im bracing for the news of who these the ten individuals were. We know one of them is a Police Officer. I have no word on who the other nine are. And thats, thats infuriating and i dont know if i will be able to sleep tonight not knowing. But this is something that is all too common in america. Like i was saying at the beginning, we have had a horrific year as a country, as a world. It has finally started to feel like things are getting back to quote unquote normal and unfortunately we are reminded that that includes Mass Shootings. We have seen two this week, and colorado has seen several in the years past. But it, as President Biden said, we can build back better. But i think this has to be part of that. We cannot simply build back better in every other area and ignore gun violence that happens frankly each and every day across the country. We need to have that to be a part of the future that we are building. Senator, on a terrible night for your community, thank you for spending a few minutes with us and taking our questions. My best wishes for a speedy recovery to your community, to your point, im sure it will take a long time. We will be thinking of all of you. We have been talking to Colorado State senator Steve Fenberg and now we have on our national fbi former director figliuzzi, and ashley parker. White house bureau chief for the washington post. Frank, first to you on Law Enforcement and sadly here we are. A third location in the beautiful state of colorado, right up there along columbine and aurora will now be boulder, synonymous for whatever else they have to offer human life, synonymous with mass murders. Talk about procedure. Oddly, perversely it was columbine and aurora that helped to lead to a rethinking in your line of work, in Law Enforcement. It used to be responding officers would pause, set up a perimeter, try to establish communications, wait for s. W. A. T. And tactical to come in behind them. Now, a lot of the burden is on Patrol Officers as i fear we are going to learn when this story unfolds to go in and try to counter act the active shooter. Talk about this change in philosophy over the years and the good reasons for it. You are right, brian, columbine caused Law Enforcement to pivot on tactical strategy in responding to active shooters. It used to be about containing the threat and waiting for the s. W. A. T. Teams to arrive, and then methodically going through and clearing room to room ensuring officer safety and trying to rescue folks as you make your way through the building. Now its neutralize the threat as quickly as possible. And that means the First Responders are there. And that means heroic officers like eric tally are first in and first to confront the threat. And indeed, it appears that he did that today and gave his life for his community doing that. Its sad to say that we are now in a world where Law Enforcement is well rehearsed at combining resources. They do tabletops, they do real life exercises. County sheriffs, state authorities. Federal, seamlessly coming together to clear large buildings and now they do it for real in a supermarket. Thats the world that we live in and as the state senator just told you, we live in a world where boulder, one of the most peaceful communities i have ever traveled to during my fbi days tried to pass a law that said no ar15 type assault weapons here please, and the state of colorado, judge overturned it and said you cant have a law that preempted the state law. So here we are tonight. You are right, indeed a beautiful place on the front range of the mountains there. Ashley parker i want to read this from chris murphy who tweeted this tonight. Chris murphy from connecticut. Scene of newtown, this is the moment to make our stand now, today our movement is stronger than the gun lobby they are weak, we are potent. Finally a president and a congress that supports gun reform, no more newtowns, no more parklands and boulders. Now we make our stand. Ashley, full disclosure, you were going to be on with us to talk about politics and the challenges being faced right now by the biden administration. And sometimes life and tragedies have a way of presenting new urgent, urgent issues to our president s. In the middle of the pandemic and the massive relief bill, the discussion started today on the next effort on infrastructure. Tell us where joe biden, who has spoken openly and often about this issue, where he perhaps ranked this before we suffered two Mass Shootings in one weeks time . Well, this was an issue where people were actually not that optimistic on gun control for progress for a number of reasons. One is just generally when you with would talk to lawmakers and activists. There was a sense that after sandyhook, if you know, elementary school, kindergarteners, children getting murdered did not prompt change, nothing would. And there was a sense that under former president trump, he might have actually been a hope for some movement because he had credibility with his base and if there was anybody who could bring them along it was him. And he did nothing. Of the issues that joe biden entered Office Facing this was not one to begin with that was or that there was optimism about. Recall he said that he was facing four crisis, coronavirus, thats the economy, tied to the pandemic. Thats racial inequality and thats climate change. Then you had an administration and this this is what i was going to come to talk about, that did not want to label the crisis at the border a crisis. That said, this is just another incident on the heels of what we saw in georgia that forces this issue in to the National Discussion in a way that is simply unavoidable. Since the beginning of the media age, white houses have said things like the Biden White House has said tonight. President s been briefed and will be kept current on boulder. Ashley in the short time that we have had to observe how this still new presidency operates. What is your educated guess, do you think we will hear remarks from the president specifically on this topic, this tragedy, tomorrow . If history is any indication and sort of who President Biden is at his core. His great gift is empathy and understanding and absorbing the grief and pain of other people. And of a nation and that is because he is born out of such grief. Right . I dont need to remind you of his personal story. He lost his first wife and infant daughter in a car crash and his son beau later died of cancer. This is something that he understands to his core, when he ses somebody suffering and in pain, he seems compelled to address it. So it is hard to imagine a world in which he will not play that, at the least, the traditional role of consoler in chief. Frank figliuzzi, youre in arizona tonight, think of a senator like mark kelly, think of what propelled him in to politics and think that it was that supermarket parking lot where his wife the congresswoman Gabby Giffords came within an inch of her life. You know, theres bills pending right now, passed by the house, headed to the senate, brian, where this is going to play a role. Theres bills proposed that close the private sale loophole, the gun show loophole, requiring background checks for any sale anywhere of any weapon. The time may be now, the nra is weakened right now, if you talk to most federal, state and local Law Enforcement officers youll find among us, we all believe something more must be done to make the streets safer and give the edge to the good guys and not the bad guys. Im a cynic but im optimistic maybe this is the one with the timing being right and environment being right, that something can be done to keep our streets safer. To our audience, a heads up, we will be going a full two hours because of the breaking news we are covering. To ashley parker, there will be other nights to talk about things like border policy, pandemic relief and such. Thank you for staying with us. To frank we ask that you stick around to talk about the Law Enforcement angle of this as we continue our live breaking News Coverage of this this mass shooting in boulder, colorado. The second mass shooting in our country in one weeks time. All of it as the 11th hour is just getting under way on this monday night. Way on this monday night introducing the new sleep number 360 smart bed. Its the most comfortable, bodysensing, automaticallyresponding, energybuilding, duallyadjustable, dadpowering, wellnessboosting, footwarming, snorerelieving, temperaturebalancing, recoveryassisting, effortlessly lifechanging proven quality nights sleep weve ever made. Dont miss our weekend special. Save 1,000 on our most popular smart bed and adjustable base. Plus, 0 interest for 60 months. Ends monday see every delivery. Every yikes. And even every awwwwwwww. Wait, where was i . Introducing self protection from xfinity. Designed to put you in control. With realtime notifications and a week of uninterrupted recording. All powered by reliable, secure wifi from xfinity. Gotta respect his determination. Its easy and affordable to get started. Get self protection for 10 a month. Welcome to this family meeting. Im here because you guys need some serious together time. At universallllll. Thats how you let yourself woah universal, baby save 40 on hotel and ticket packages right now. Not later, like right now. My heart goes out to the victims of this incident and im grateful for the Police Officers that responded and im so sorry about the loss of officer tally. And again, we will be here working night and day. We have one suspect in custody. I want to reassure the community they are safe. It is hard to express what happens in a Police Department when they lose a member. Especially an 11year veteran as the Boulder Police department did tonight. That was the chief, maris herold a short time ago on a cold night in boulder, colorado. We do not expect to hear anything more from Law Enforcement tonight. They have told us updates will resume in the morning. As you know if you have been watching we have asked frank to stay with us. Were going to be doing two whole hours for tonights broadcast and we are happy to have joining our conversation jim cavanaugh. Law Enforcement Analyst for us and importantly, retired atf special agent in charge. Jim, lets walk through the point i made with frank earlier, the rethinking of how Boulder Police<\/a> chief. At 14 30 hours the Police Department<\/a> began receiving phone calls of shots fired in the area. And a phone call about a possible person with a patrol rifle. Officer tally responded to the scene and was the first on the scene and he was fatally shot. I also want to commend the heroic actions of the officers responding not only from boulder pd, but across the county and other parts of this region. That was the police chief from just a few minutes a ago. For more on this. Im joined by telephone by steven fenberg. He is the Senate Majority<\/a> leader in colorado, a Democratic State<\/a> senator representing this district. Senator, i dont know how much your state is supposed to take, we already associate beautiful places like columbine and aurora with Mass Shootings<\/a>, now your district i heard you say this is your supermarket and short distance from the middle school where your wife is a teacher . Thats right, thanks for having me brian. This is obviously shocking, unfortunately, it feels like our world is turned up side down in a million ways over the last year. It seems like we are getting back to normal and unfortunately that means we are continuing to see Mass Shootings<\/a> in the news around the country. And seems like its hit had my community tonight. But its nothing new for the country unfortunately. How do you begin to deal with not only the sadness but the stress . We have not publically identified, for good reason the names of the victims beyond the Police Officer<\/a>, may he rest in peace. Because family members presumably are still being told. That means at select homes in your district, there are going to be vigils and visitors coming over and comforting perhaps your neighbors. Its sickening to think about that. This is a small community. People know boulder, colorado, its only 100,000 people. This is a close knit community. Tragedy like this when it happens, it touches all of us. And unfortunately for some, its coming very close to home tonight. You know, these were people that were just going to do their groceries. We were expecting a snow storm. And people were probably going to do their groceries to stock up on a few things before the storm hit and all of a sudden, their life was either sickeningly taken too early or changed forever. You know, i have heard stories of people that were in line to get their covid19 vaccine line in the pharmacy. And then the shooter appeared and took one of their lives. So, its incredibly infuriating. The thing people say is thoughts and prayers and they have got a heavy heart, i have all of that. But really this country needs action. And we have done quite a bit in colorado on gun violence reform. I think we are absolutely going to do more. But we need, we need national action. We need federal action. I urge the president and congress and the senate to think long and hard, this should not just be yet another shooting where we have thoughts and prayers and then move on. We all need to do something more. We need to pass policy. Some folks would say its too soon. But i would say its obviously, if you look at the news tonight. Its way too late. So, we have to act. We have to put that anger in to something constructive. And senator of course, it is starting tomorrow, this will be will folded in to the gun control debate across the country as will colorado status, i believe you are an open carry state, and how, is there any gauge of support for that, for the state, where it is in opinion polls, it is a tough freedom once awarded to gun owners to rescind. Its a good question, and its clear that people respect and appreciate the Second Amendment<\/a> and its clear that people understand it has to come with limits in a society. And you know, we actually in colorado, for being a western state, maybe a traditionally libertarian leaning type of state, we have decent laws on the books. We have the extreme Risk Protection<\/a> order a that was passed two years ago. To be honest, it does not infringe on peoples rights. It protects people in a Mental Health<\/a> crisis from harming themselves or somebody close to them. So we have a magazine limit. You cant have a magazine for your weapon that is more than 15 rounds. We have good policies on books. You know, the ironic thing in a way is boulder had a city level assault weapons ban in city limits and that was passed a couple of years ago, and just five or six days ago, a court overturned it because of a state preemption, thats something were going to be looking at, i go back to work tomorrow at 9 00 a. M. And those are the conversations we will have to start having. What we can do on a state level that yes, respects the Second Amendment<\/a> but also understands that in this world, we have a choice. We can decide to go on like normal and have these horrible incidences become more normal, we can get numb, or we can change it. We really, its one of those, its really not a difficult policy conversation in some ways. Its within our power to make some changes. And its something that im going continue working on with my colleagues but, we also at the same time, also need the federal government to act. Having a patchwork of laws around the state is better than nothing. The states that can act should act. But we need more aggressive action taken nationally. Final question speaks to how you get your head around this. I go to the Grocery Store<\/a> every weekend, always have. Im picturing you at home, watching these pictures. Perhaps its right where you walk your cart back up to the store. Perhaps you were there saturday. Perhaps tonight, god forbid, you are going to learn thats somebody you know has lost their life and if not you, they are going to be friends of someone you know. It was briefly today an armed encampment where people walk up and return the carts and go in and come out was full of these Armored Vehicles<\/a> and what looked like dismounted u. S. Military infantry. They were of course, multiple jurisdictional members of the police force. I dont for all of us who have not had tragedy visit where we live, i dont know how that trip to the food store will be the same. Well i dont think its ever going to be the same for anybody in the community when they go to the Grocery Store<\/a>. Its unfortunately not a unique circumstance. I mean, theres people all over the country that have to think about that. I mean, there are a lot of people that cant go to a Movie Theater<\/a> anymore. A colleague of mine representative tom sullivan, his son was tragically taken from him in the aurora theater shooting. I cannot imagine going to a movie if i were him. These are normal things that every american should have the right to do casually and not think twice about. Maybe if you think about getting the whole milk or organic milk, but when you go to the Grocery Store<\/a>, you should not be thinking is something horrific going to happen on that trip. So nobody bounces back to where they were when they go through Something Like<\/a> this. I was not personally touched as far as i know. To be totally honest, brian, im bracing for the news of who these the ten individuals were. We know one of them is a Police Officer<\/a>. I have no word on who the other nine are. And thats, thats infuriating and i dont know if i will be able to sleep tonight not knowing. But this is something that is all too common in america. Like i was saying at the beginning, we have had a horrific year as a country, as a world. It has finally started to feel like things are getting back to quote unquote normal and unfortunately we are reminded that that includes Mass Shootings<\/a>. We have seen two this week, and colorado has seen several in the years past. But it, as President Biden<\/a> said, we can build back better. But i think this has to be part of that. We cannot simply build back better in every other area and ignore gun violence that happens frankly each and every day across the country. We need to have that to be a part of the future that we are building. Senator, on a terrible night for your community, thank you for spending a few minutes with us and taking our questions. My best wishes for a speedy recovery to your community, to your point, im sure it will take a long time. We will be thinking of all of you. We have been talking to Colorado State<\/a> senator Steve Fenberg<\/a> and now we have on our national fbi former director figliuzzi, and ashley parker. White house bureau chief for the washington post. Frank, first to you on Law Enforcement<\/a> and sadly here we are. A third location in the beautiful state of colorado, right up there along columbine and aurora will now be boulder, synonymous for whatever else they have to offer human life, synonymous with mass murders. Talk about procedure. Oddly, perversely it was columbine and aurora that helped to lead to a rethinking in your line of work, in Law Enforcement<\/a>. It used to be responding officers would pause, set up a perimeter, try to establish communications, wait for s. W. A. T. And tactical to come in behind them. Now, a lot of the burden is on Patrol Officer<\/a>s as i fear we are going to learn when this story unfolds to go in and try to counter act the active shooter. Talk about this change in philosophy over the years and the good reasons for it. You are right, brian, columbine caused Law Enforcement<\/a> to pivot on tactical strategy in responding to active shooters. It used to be about containing the threat and waiting for the s. W. A. T. Teams to arrive, and then methodically going through and clearing room to room ensuring officer safety and trying to rescue folks as you make your way through the building. Now its neutralize the threat as quickly as possible. And that means the First Responders<\/a> are there. And that means heroic officers like eric tally are first in and first to confront the threat. And indeed, it appears that he did that today and gave his life for his community doing that. Its sad to say that we are now in a world where Law Enforcement<\/a> is well rehearsed at combining resources. They do tabletops, they do real life exercises. County sheriffs, state authorities. Federal, seamlessly coming together to clear large buildings and now they do it for real in a supermarket. Thats the world that we live in and as the state senator just told you, we live in a world where boulder, one of the most peaceful communities i have ever traveled to during my fbi days tried to pass a law that said no ar15 type assault weapons here please, and the state of colorado, judge overturned it and said you cant have a law that preempted the state law. So here we are tonight. You are right, indeed a beautiful place on the front range of the mountains there. Ashley parker i want to read this from chris murphy who tweeted this tonight. Chris murphy from connecticut. Scene of newtown, this is the moment to make our stand now, today our movement is stronger than the gun lobby they are weak, we are potent. Finally a president and a congress that supports gun reform, no more newtowns, no more parklands and boulders. Now we make our stand. Ashley, full disclosure, you were going to be on with us to talk about politics and the challenges being faced right now by the biden administration. And sometimes life and tragedies have a way of presenting new urgent, urgent issues to our president s. In the middle of the pandemic and the massive relief bill, the discussion started today on the next effort on infrastructure. Tell us where joe biden, who has spoken openly and often about this issue, where he perhaps ranked this before we suffered two Mass Shootings<\/a> in one weeks time . Well, this was an issue where people were actually not that optimistic on gun control for progress for a number of reasons. One is just generally when you with would talk to lawmakers and activists. There was a sense that after sandyhook, if you know, elementary school, kindergarteners, children getting murdered did not prompt change, nothing would. And there was a sense that under former president trump, he might have actually been a hope for some movement because he had credibility with his base and if there was anybody who could bring them along it was him. And he did nothing. Of the issues that joe biden entered Office Facing<\/a> this was not one to begin with that was or that there was optimism about. Recall he said that he was facing four crisis, coronavirus, thats the economy, tied to the pandemic. Thats racial inequality and thats climate change. Then you had an administration and this this is what i was going to come to talk about, that did not want to label the crisis at the border a crisis. That said, this is just another incident on the heels of what we saw in georgia that forces this issue in to the National Discussion<\/a> in a way that is simply unavoidable. Since the beginning of the media age, white houses have said things like the Biden White House<\/a> has said tonight. President s been briefed and will be kept current on boulder. Ashley in the short time that we have had to observe how this still new presidency operates. What is your educated guess, do you think we will hear remarks from the president specifically on this topic, this tragedy, tomorrow . If history is any indication and sort of who President Biden<\/a> is at his core. His great gift is empathy and understanding and absorbing the grief and pain of other people. And of a nation and that is because he is born out of such grief. Right . I dont need to remind you of his personal story. He lost his first wife and infant daughter in a car crash and his son beau later died of cancer. This is something that he understands to his core, when he ses somebody suffering and in pain, he seems compelled to address it. So it is hard to imagine a world in which he will not play that, at the least, the traditional role of consoler in chief. Frank figliuzzi, youre in arizona tonight, think of a senator like mark kelly, think of what propelled him in to politics and think that it was that supermarket parking lot where his wife the congresswoman Gabby Giffords<\/a> came within an inch of her life. You know, theres bills pending right now, passed by the house, headed to the senate, brian, where this is going to play a role. Theres bills proposed that close the private sale loophole, the gun show loophole, requiring background checks for any sale anywhere of any weapon. The time may be now, the nra is weakened right now, if you talk to most federal, state and local Law Enforcement<\/a> officers youll find among us, we all believe something more must be done to make the streets safer and give the edge to the good guys and not the bad guys. Im a cynic but im optimistic maybe this is the one with the timing being right and environment being right, that something can be done to keep our streets safer. To our audience, a heads up, we will be going a full two hours because of the breaking news we are covering. To ashley parker, there will be other nights to talk about things like border policy, pandemic relief and such. Thank you for staying with us. To frank we ask that you stick around to talk about the Law Enforcement<\/a> angle of this as we continue our live breaking News Coverage<\/a> of this this mass shooting in boulder, colorado. The second mass shooting in our country in one weeks time. All of it as the 11th hour is just getting under way on this monday night. Way on this monday night introducing the new sleep number 360 smart bed. Its the most comfortable, bodysensing, automaticallyresponding, energybuilding, duallyadjustable, dadpowering, wellnessboosting, footwarming, snorerelieving, temperaturebalancing, recoveryassisting, effortlessly lifechanging proven quality nights sleep weve ever made. Dont miss our weekend special. Save 1,000 on our most popular smart bed and adjustable base. Plus, 0 interest for 60 months. Ends monday see every delivery. Every yikes. And even every awwwwwwww. Wait, where was i . Introducing self protection from xfinity. Designed to put you in control. With realtime notifications and a week of uninterrupted recording. All powered by reliable, secure wifi from xfinity. Gotta respect his determination. Its easy and affordable to get started. Get self protection for 10 a month. Welcome to this family meeting. Im here because you guys need some serious together time. At universallllll. Thats how you let yourself woah universal, baby save 40 on hotel and ticket packages right now. Not later, like right now. My heart goes out to the victims of this incident and im grateful for the Police Officers<\/a> that responded and im so sorry about the loss of officer tally. And again, we will be here working night and day. We have one suspect in custody. I want to reassure the community they are safe. It is hard to express what happens in a Police Department<\/a> when they lose a member. Especially an 11year veteran as the Boulder Police<\/a> department did tonight. That was the chief, maris herold a short time ago on a cold night in boulder, colorado. We do not expect to hear anything more from Law Enforcement<\/a> tonight. They have told us updates will resume in the morning. As you know if you have been watching we have asked frank to stay with us. Were going to be doing two whole hours for tonights broadcast and we are happy to have joining our conversation jim cavanaugh. Law Enforcement Analyst<\/a> for us and importantly, retired atf special agent in charge. Jim, lets walk through the point i made with frank earlier, the rethinking of how Law Enforcement<\/a> responds to a call that goes out, active shooter. So youre a Patrol Officer<\/a> in boulder this afternoon. You may or may not depending on your department and their wishes and their budget, you may or may not have a long gun in your vehicle. You may or may not have the kind of firepower that matches up with this gunmans rumored ar15 long gun. You take the call. Often what you have heard over the radio is simply shots fired at the king supermarket. You enter because policy calls for you to do everything that you can and in some cases not wait for back up. Well, its exactly right, brian, i heard you and frank discuss it earlier and you are both right, columbine was a sea change in how we responded to those. When i was working, i had responded to a call where a man shot five people in a bar, and started shooting at me and my partner, and that happens in the blink of an eye. And a lot of American Police<\/a> have experienced this. Theres shootings in the cities every night and they are responding to the calls all the time. And used to be it was rare, now, its not so rare. Most Police Officers<\/a>, you know, have been in some kind of a gun battle or gun pointed at them or shots going over their head. Its sad, really sad. Yes, but the protocol changed after columbine, it changed because criminal behavior changed. It did not change because the police decided to change it. It changed because the criminals prior to that were operating on agreed mode of a hostage taking mode, of i want you to give me some money mode, of im stuck in a bank, i want to get out of here. And then, columbine changed because these two killers in columbine just wanted to kill everybody. That was the change. And so, we, when we responded the old way in Law Enforcement<\/a> to wait outside for swat as you and frank discussed, which you are totally correct. We had to have a change and that was the response to active shooter. And the way that everyone was trained post columbine, a few Patrol Officer<\/a>s get there, you try to team up in a squad of three, you get your vest, your long guns and try to penetrate. We dont know in the boulder officer was killed in the parking lot, brian, he very well may have been killed just getting out of his vehicle or in his vehicle. We dont know how he was. We know the shooter was in the parking lot. He could have been killed early there had or he could have went in to the supermarket trying to save lives and indeed may have saved many lives going in just engaging the gunman and could have kept him occupied while citizens were able to run to safety out the back. I think we will hear the things in the days ahead, what a hero he was and also, swat swat settled this. You know, swat sometimes takes a lot of criticism, they are militarized. But what America Needs<\/a> to understand about swat, they are so necessary in your community, city, county, state and federal. You have to be swat. They have to be trained and experts at what they do. They were entering through the roof of the building. They safely got this guy in to custody. Maybe they negotiated with him some and got him to stand down and got his attire off and got him out safely. When we did the tactics, i always remember churchills admonition, battles are won with slaughter and maneuver and the greater the general, the more he does with maneuver. Its move them here, negotiate here, send in a robot here. Put the tear gas in. Trying avoid the death and the shooting. If you can make the maneuver. And what boulder s. W. A. T. Did here was make the maneuver. And so that really goes to their credit. Frank, jim raises good points. The nature of conduct and the change in the nature of the criminals that we face in our society. And number three, this immutable which is often is not discussed in Civilized Society<\/a>. Waiting for swat can mean lives are being lost in the interim, you can have a great Armored Vehicle<\/a> coming up behind you andthe best manager of perimeters in your department and if you hear the report of a rifle inside of a Big Box Retail<\/a> store, its not doing anybody any good. Yeah, lets touch on a couple of these issues when jim talks about the change in mindset, barricaded subjects, shooters, standoff subjects. It has evolved, and what that points to is a Mental Health<\/a> component. So we would be remiss if we spent the night talking only about gun laws and gun control. Its absolutely necessary of course. But lets also talk about the mindset of the shooter that goes from a standoff that can be negotiated to a settle, and now, going with the intent of killing as many people as i can. That brings a Mental Health<\/a> component to it. And the availability of professional Mental Health<\/a> counseling. How long it takes to get somebody in to see a counselor or psychologist. That needs to be part of the total package. Then secondly, moving to the logical outflow of this is yes, those Patrol Officer<\/a>s have to be equipped to deal with severe threat. Immediately. And so, when people talking about defunding the police, please understand while it may mean embedding Mental Health<\/a> professionals and giving nonpolice tasks to components that can do it as well or better. As jim said, you absolutely have to have a way of countering the threat on the street. And if you are going get rid of anything, you should not be getting rid of the guys that come in like the calvary, armed to deal with what cannot be dealt with on the front line. So many times i have seen Police Department<\/a>s, the city council line items right out the need for shot guns, the resources to give people semiautomatic rifles, patrol car rifles. They need those in order to survive and protect us. So, theres a delicate discussion that has to go on between how much are we equipping the police. What is the threat . What do we move along to other resources . And what must the police have to deal with the threat and keep us safe . Yeah, we like to think of ourselves as a Civilized Society<\/a> and we are also a Violent Society<\/a> and the firepower in balance, is the way, people, and especially people in Law Enforcement<\/a> get killed in the line of duty as they rush to danger. They are going to stay with us as we repeatedly discuss this still breaking news out of boulder, colorado. Our thanks for this segment to frank figliuzzi, jim cavanaugh, more of the 11th hour after this quick break. As we cover this second mass shooting in our country in one weeks time, the shocking word tonight that ten souls have been lost in boulder, colorado, including an 11 year veteran of the Boulder Police<\/a> force, we are joined by a previous guest on this broadcast, a gentleman we last saw as impeachment manager in house of representatives, who happens to represent this district in congress and that is Democratic Congress<\/a> joe nagoose of colorado. Congressman, i mentioned what an awful night this must be back home in your district where families who perhaps have not heard, are waiting for official next of kin notification. I cannot imagine what your community is going through. What will you learn from this good evening, brian. Its just a devastating night. Its a devastating night for our community and for our state and we are heart broken. Im heart broken for my community. For the many victims that we lost. The loss of life just is hard to fathom. You think of ten people who lost their lives today, including officer tally as you mentioned to, whose heroism saved lives. We are lifting them up and thinking about their families and mourning with them and it will be a difficult, it will be a difficult day, week, months ahead for our community and for our state. I have lived in Boulder County<\/a> for many decades. My wife is born in boulder, its our community and home and we know our community is a strong one and resilient one and we will get through this together. Its a difficult night tonight and we are just praying for the victims. How do you process the fact that as i mentioned to the Senate Majority<\/a> leader, your great state of colorado, already, synonymous with places like columbine, ordinary Movie Theater<\/a> in aurora, and now a perfectly ordinary shopping center. Big box food store in boulder, colorado, nobodys life in that area will be the same. The structure of the way people use it and view it will never be the same. And i cannot imagine anyone ever thought this this kind of tragedy would be visited on that great state. Yeah, you know, i grew up ten minutes from columbine, im weve went for so many weve lost to tragedy, and tonight im filled like Many Americans<\/a> are, with a lot of frustration. And its clear that enough is enough. And the congress has to do something. I think we have gone far too long without taking meaningful action on gun violence. It does not have to be this way. As you said is, americans should be able to feel safe in their Grocery Store<\/a>s and Movie Theater<\/a>s and schools. And while congress is dithering on meaningful gun violence prevention measures, americans and coloradoens are dying, and its time for congress to act and i will push for my colleagues to do the same. As one of the leading voices certainly among the Young Democrats<\/a> in the house, we will be looking for that and hearing your voice when it happens when you reconvene and when folks talk about it in the house of representatives and the u. S. Senate. Congressman joe negative congressman, i know i join the viewers in expressing the condolences for the staggering loss suffered today and tonight. I want to continue the conversation with a big city mayor and talk about something that took place over this weekend. Theres a related angle here to this discussion we are having. Spring break as you may have seen this weekend because indeed the whole world was watching these pictures, proved to be a bit too much for the city of miami beach after huge crowds flooded in and caused chaos on the streets. The city is now extending an 8 00 p. M. To 6 00 a. M. Curfew, thursdaysunday in the central Entertainment District<\/a> for the next three weeks because of this scene you are looking on, you are looking at on your screen. They have made over 1,000 arrests in miami beach since february. And think about processing and booking and covid protocols. Think of the strain on Law Enforcement<\/a>. Theres worry that the florida crowds amount to a potential, god forbid, a super spreader event in a state where the pandemic is still an active problem, no matter what we hear from the governor. For more on this tragic night in colorado, we want to welcome back to the broadcast, dan gelber, the democratic mayor of miami beach. Mr. Mayor i know you join us in expressing your condolences of the tragedy that the mayor of boulder, colorado, is going through tonight. Local policing has been focused squarely on you and squarely on the city of miami beach as you know. There were people that thought your response was too robust. But there you were presiding over streets that had been over taken with people in the midst of a pandemic. Yeah, and no, and first of all, our hearts are heavy, brian. And they are with all of our city, you know, thinking about our friends in boulder for what they are going through. Its, you know, our discussion is almost nothing compared to what they are doing right now. Our city is, its, you know, its very have unusual for us, we are a destination city, typically you know, beaches and architecture, we embrace anybody who comes here, we love when people create special moments here. Thats what we are all about. And so, right now, its particularly difficult and its really been recently and i think in great part because i think we are one of the only cities, one of the only major destination cities that are totally open. The governor has demanded that everything be open and inviting everyone. But what happened is an enormous number has come. Which created a marriage issue. Theres a number of people that are coming with bad intentions and doing things that they shouldnt, including gun play by the way and third, theres a pandemic that is going on. Which doesnt seem like anybody in the crowd really is contemplating, notwithstanding our best efforts with the rules we are allowed to abide by. To give masks out and try to urge healthy practices. So its very frustrating, but hopefully it will be temporary. You saw and heard the coverage no doubt, no doubt you were heart sick over the fact that indeed, these pictures were played and i saw them around the globe this weekend. They have been repeated in print. The allegation was made that the Police Response<\/a> was more robust than it should have been because the crowd was mostly black americans. The allegation was that once they had come together, you had to let it play out. You clearly reached a different conclusion and ordered those streets cleared. Yes. You know, i mean, this is not spring break as we all think about spring break where theres just sort of mischievous sophomores drinking more than they should, these arent mostly college students, they are older and the ones that are problematic, are, i mean, we have had people discharge weapons in crowds of thousands of people and people running. We have had people hit by bullets. That is not something that we can tolerate at all in our city and i appreciate that people are concerned about over policing. Before i was in this job, i was a federal prosecutor where i did almost predominantly civil rights prosecutions, so im attuned to police force and excessive force. But you cant lose control of your streets and we are not targeting any race. We are targeting conduct. And the conduct we are targeting i dont think that anybody can disagree is not something that a city can allow to go on. Because it endangers not simply police. It endangers bystanders and guests, it endangers residents and we have no choice. I understand, a state where a governor is bragging on how open everything is, you have become a standing republic inside a larger country where you have to protect your borders and god forbid, you see a localized spike in coronavirus. But the first point you made is correct. We should have the sense to limit any conversation off topic tonight because of this tragedy we are focused on in the rocky mountains. With that, our thanks to you for keeping your commitment and talking to us tonight, mayor dan gelber, miami beach, florida. Thank you very much, mayor. Thank you. The Boulder Police<\/a> department, we wanted to let you know has now released a photo of the Police Officer<\/a> killed in todays shooting. Eric tally. He is an 11year veteran of that force. More of the 11th hour when we come right back. H hour when we come right back. Do you have a Life Insurance<\/a> policy you no longer need . Now you can sell your policy, even a term policy, for an immediate cash payment. Call Coventry Direct<\/a> to learn more. We thought we had planned carefully for our retirement. But we quickly realized that we needed a way to supplement our income. Our friends sold their policy to help pay for their medical bills and that got me thinking. Maybe selling our policy could help with our retirement. Im skeptical, so i did some research and called Coventry Direct<\/a>. They explained Life Insurance<\/a> is a valuable asset that can be sold. We learned that we can sell all of our policy or keep part of it with no future payments, who knew . We sold our policy. Now we can relax and enjoy our retirement as we had planned. If you have one hundred thousand dollars or more of Life Insurance<\/a> you may qualify to sell your policy. Dont cancel or let your policy lapse without finding out what its worth. Visit conventrydirect. Com to find out if you policy qualifies. Or call the number on your screen. Coventry direct, redefining insurance. With us tonight as we cover this tragic breaking news story out of boulder, colorado, the shooting death of ten individuals this season. Sam stein is with us, white house editor at politico, and tim miller, a contributor to the bulwark, former Communications Director<\/a> for jeb bush. Gentlemen, welcome back to the broadcast, thank you for keeping your commitment to us on this night of breaking news and segments we have tossed up in to the air because of the nature of the story we are covering. Tim, i would like to begin with you, by asking you to tell the good people watching tonight, tell us where you grew up and where your thoughts are this evening . Yeah, look, this is tough. I grew up a mile from columbine and you know, that shooting was a formative part of my youth. And i just look back on that and think, if you would is have told me then that over two decades later these same types of mass shooting events would still be happening, would be happening the next town over and in the intervening time literally nothing had happened. Nobody had come to the table to resolve it and meet in the middle or try to do anything, i just dont think i would have believed that. So, my heart and thoughts goes out to all the folks in boulder and to all my people back in colorado tonight. Sam stein, i would like to read you something from former Congress Woman<\/a> gabrielle giffords. She writes on twitter tonight. Today its a tragedy in boulder, colorado, this past weekend it was a house party in philadelphia and last week, it was an armed attack on in the tlantd atlanta area. It does not have to be this way. Its beyond time for leaders to take action. My heart sinks for those waiting for news of their family and friends in boulder. As we receive more information. We must remember that every victim had a name. They have hopes and dreams and people that loved them, they are no longer with us because of preventable tragedies. This is an especially personal tragedy for me. Its been ten years and countless communities have faced something similar. This is not normal. Indeed sam, when this happened tonight, in of all places a Grocery Store<\/a> having arrived the attack that almost took the life of congresswoman giffords, its almost unbelievable. What happens tomorrow and the next day . Do the parties go back to their corners . Well, you know, yes, i do so. But unfortunately, i do think this is normal in america. Its normal. In any other country, its not normal. One of the most disturbing pieces i remember reading on this, the recollections of those who survived columbine who had grown up and send their kids to high school and live in fear about what might confront them in a school shooting. To your point, brian, at various junctures, all of us have wondered, is this the Tipping Point<\/a> . When a congresswoman is shot in the head, you ask, is this a Tipping Point<\/a> . And when 20 first graders are gunned down in school, you say, this must be the Tipping Point<\/a>. But it goes on and on, and i do expect people to go to their corners. It will spark debate about whether democrats should consider changing the filibuster rules. That is the clearest avenue for getting necessary votes for some sort of legislation, but ultimately, i think if you had money to bet, you would probably bet on inaction at this point. Nothing thats happened in past two decades has moved congress at all. Tim, between us, we know a ton of journalists, and im willing to bet somewhere tonight at some key board, probably in washington, d. C. , someones writing a column along the lines of, well, i guess the pandemic is over. Guess what we didnt see in the height of the pandemic, Mass Shootings<\/a>. Was no School Shootings<\/a> because it became more a less a virtual activity. Were locked in a huge societal debate. Red hats versus blue. On quote opening up society again, here we are, two Mass Shootings<\/a>, one weeks time. You know, its hard not to think about that, isnt it, brian . Its striking. The last segment, with what we saw happening in miami beach, and people coming back to at least a hint of normalcy. The weather is Getting Better<\/a> and people outside and gathering, and having an excitement, and just to have that damper on it so soon after there is a little bit of hope is frustrating. Flummoxing. To just really quick to sams point on the filibuster, you know, the most serious effort to my sort of action, bipartisan action, its Manchin Toomey<\/a>. With joe manchin as 50th vote, pat toomey now a retiring republican, i would hope in addition to the journalist writing about covid tonight, brian there are calls down to toomey and joe manchins office as well. And sam, to that exact point, those two surnames and senators we have come to know well, do you think there is a chance well see more outreach like that . Kind of grab a partner from the other side of the aisle . Someone who has given you a wink and a nod they may may be willing to break party lines and see things the way you do . Yeah, i mean look, if you had to lay out an optimistic case for something happening legislatively, it would go like this. Are a number of seasoned republican senators who are retiring. One, pat toomey has put his name on legislation that would expand background checks. Democrats are basically all in line on this. They were not in line when Manchin Toomey<\/a> first came up, but they are now, and the nra is in shambles, the organization is dealing with legal bills, legal dramas. They may be moving their location. They are not the entity, the force on the hill they once were. That is a landscape thats optimistic version of it. And yet still, you come back to the fact that you need ten republican senators if you want to move legislation, and i dont see where you get those types of numbers in the current landscape. If there is one lesson, after the shooting at sandy hook, joe biden led the Obama Task Force<\/a> on gun control legislation. They put together sweeping executive actions and legislative proposals, they moved fairly fast. But the cw at the end, they dont move fast enough. If anything is going to happen, it has to happen instantaneously to capitalize in perverse way of using that word on this tragedy happening twice now in a week. Thank you, gentlemen, for raising terrific points in a terrible hour for our country. Two friends of the broadcast, sam stein, tim miller, our thanks. Again, we will be going live in the next hour, and live coverage continues at the top of the next hour after this short break. A lot of people think dealing with copd is a walk in the park. If i have something to help me breathe better, everything will be fun and nice. But i still have bad days flareups coughs , which can permanently damage my lungs. My lungs need protection against flareups. So its time to get real. Because in the real world our lungs deserves the real protection of breztri. Breztri gives you better breathing symptom improvement, and flareup protection. Its the first and only copd medicine proven to reduce flareups by 52 breztri wont replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. It is not for asthma. Tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high Blood Pressure<\/a> before taking it. Dont take breztri more than prescribed. Breztri may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. Call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. For real protection ask your doctor about breztri. Welcome back. 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