Private. Something that would make any citizen without regard to party very concerned tonight. Allegedly abusing the power of office to try to shut down a probe into his own white house. Words that apply to nixon that undid his presidency and words that are advanced tonight. Lets get into the story. You may know if you watch this news program, we dont typically tweet Donald Trumps tweets as news stories because most of them are not news. Many of them are not factual, some of them are outright lies and a great many of them are ploys designed to hijack the conversation, distract the media or troll the notion. Up front, this is why weaver doing Something Different tonight. President trump is telling the Attorney General to shut down the mueller probe. Hes stating it in public and in writing that Jeff Sessions should stop the probe now. To be clear, if donald trump made that order in a private meeting with Jeff Sessions, or on a phone call to the doj or held a Big Press Conference on
The days biggest political and news stories, with interviews and reporting from around the nation. Crimes one commits in public. This obviously would be helpful to donald trump because of many things he has done in question about this investigation have occurred in public. He publicly admitted he fired comey with russia on his mind. He publicly suggested he could fire sessions for the same goals. And he publicly asked a foreign government, as we all know remember as an issue in this open case to hack his political rival. Russia, if youre listening, i hope youre able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing. Just because you do something that sounds bad, looks bad or is potentially criminal out in the open, on cram camera, on twitter, wherever, does not mean as a legal matter you cant be held accountable for it. I could stand in the middle of fifth avenue and shoot somebody and i wouldnt lose any voters, its like incredible. Donald trump made that claim,
tweets are show Different Levels of consciousness of guilt. And they show, and theyre important for the proof of intent. But its not i dont think its a separate count. And i say that because i also think there is were starting out real lawyerly. When i say an element, does it go to part of the obstruction of evidence in the case of intent and goals . I didnt say count. Sure. I think it goes to intent and his goals. I think theres plenty of obstruction evidence, and there will be even more obstruction evidence, good ol fashioned Bread And Butter Obstruction evidence and this will be part of the indictment. And part of the evidence that is given to either a jury or in an impeachment trial. But standing alone i dont think its a count. Right. I mean who cares whether its a count. Well, some people do. Some people do. Let me bring ch. The question is whether this
adds to the case against the president for Potential Obstruction of justice. What would happen if barack obama or george w. Bush or any other president Out Of The Blue stood up in public, in whatever medium, whatever way and said to their recused Attorney General, shut down, immediately, the probe into my campaign . People would be calling for his head. We know that because weve seen it. When he mentioned things about the Hillary Clinton investigation, and peoples heads exploded. As the prosecutor was saying this is one piece of a larger puzzle that shows that there is certainly a consciousness of guilt. This goes to the question of whether whats bothering the president so much that on the very same day that one of his former Campaign Chairman has gone on trial, he has the presence of mind to say these things. As you say, on the very week the Campaign Chair is on trial, the first trial that mueller has reached. Exactly. And the fact that this has
happened. Its not even the Main Trial Mueller will be handling. Theres a separate d. C. Trial where the stakes are much higher. This is happening as all of these revelations are coming up during trial. Theres certainly something there that he is issuing this order to the Department Of Justice, which has control, oversight over other prosecutors, and certainly strength in the case from obstruction. I want you both to stay with me as promised. Im bringing in richard painer, he is now running as a democrat for the u. S. Senate in minnesota. I go to you, sir, on this central question, does this Statement Account as evidence or an element of Potential Obstruction by donald trump . Well, its certainly evidence of obstruction of justice. And first, we really have to worry about the mental stability of our president when he is incriminating himself on twitter. This is very, very damaging,
very incriminating tweet. Its part of a long pattern of obstruction of justice. He fired james comey. He has repeatedly tried to pressure Jeff Sessions to unrecuse. And fire Robert Mueller. And the prosecutor will find evidence of obstruction inside the white house, im sure. But, you know, the house and Senate Judiciary committee should be investigating this. Were pay past the time of 1973 where they were investigating richard nixon. Im shocked there is no investigation for obstruction of justice and abuse of power and other high crimes and misdemeanors. Let me ask you, why do you think that tonight were in a place that is past where we were with nixon regarding president ial obstruction . What supports your view on that . I think we were past that point when he fired james comey. It was clear he fired james comey in order to obstruct the russia investigation, and he admitted to that in front of the Russian Ambassador in several tv interviews. We should have had hearings in the house and Senate Judiciarycommittee at the same time that Robert Mueller was hired. And thats the way it was done in the nixon days. They had the house and senate actually doing their jobs, and investigating. This is and has been evidence of obstruction of justice going all the way back to the comey firing, at least. Its shameful its not being investigated. He ought to be out of office by now. And i know that you speak as someone whos running for a senate seat. Were getting a window into what you would do if in that body. Cynthia, take a listen to how donald trump used to say he would deal with these type of matters. I said on the Department Of Justice i would stay uninvolved. Now, i may get involved at some point if it gets worse. What does it say to you about the case against him if he is now getting more involved in the week of his Campaign Chairmans trial . You know, i think theres a couple of reasons. Theyre pretty interesting legally. One is, giuliani dropped this little gem in his unhinged
interview that they had sent a proposal to muellers office in which the president would agree to testify. And they had a proposal. And its been 11 days and theyve heard nothing. And i think thats freaking them out. Because what we know is, of course, that when a person moves from the subject of an investigation to the target of an investigation we dont send we dont subpoena them anymore. I think theyre afraid that thats Whats Going On. In addition lets slow down on that very important point youre making so everyones staying with you. Youre saying that the fact that bob muellers team is potentially no longer in active negotiations for an interview could suggest that their posture has changed from gathering information from the president , as a subject, which is bad, but middle bad, to not seeking his testimony because they view him as a target, which is bad, super bad . Exactly. I mean, i think in addition, i think theyre playing with his head, and giulianis head, which
for that olive branch with trump to happen later. Youve never heard manafort say anything bad about trump at all. All these witnesses who have flipped or pleaded guilty obviously are not in the president s graces anymore. Its very likely he will pardon him. Manafort is still hanging on tight. That says to me that donald trump doesnt want him to do something that might incriminate him further. Part of the big guessing game. Coming up, trumps comparison of manafort to al capone. I have a prosecutor who rolled up the mob, special guest. This new report on trump lying more than ever before. And barack obama getting involved in the midterms. All that, plus, as promised, Tony Schwartz on how to keep your brain sane in these times. Im ari melber. Youre watching the beat on msnbc. But allstate actually helps you drive safely. With drivewise. It lets you know when you go too fast. And brake too hard. With feedback to help you drive safer. Giving you the power to actually lower your cost. Unfortunately, it cant do anything about that. Now that you know the truth. Are you in good hands . But prevagen helps your brain with an ingredient originally discovered. In jellyfish. In clinical trials, prevagen has been shown to improve shortterm memory. Prevagen. Healthier brain. Better life. With the new Chase Ink Business unlimited card i get unlimited 1. 5 cash back. Its so simple, i dont even have to think about it. So i think about mouthfeel. Introducing Chase Ink Business unlimited with unlimited 1. 5 cash back on every purchase. Are you ready to take your then you need xfinity xfi. . A more powerful way to stay connected. It gives you super fast speeds for all your devices, provides the most Wifi Coverage for your home, and lets you control your network with the xfi app. Its the ultimate wifi experience. Xfinity xfi, simple, easy, awesome. Call it Donald Trumps al capone defense. Today on what is just the second day of Paul Manaforts trial, donald trump comparing his former Campaign Chair to the notorious Mobster Asking who was treated worse, al capone, legendary mob boss, or Paul Manafort. Paul manafort who really is a nice man. You look at Whats Going On with him, its like al capone. 2005 tax case. On a case thats very old. Its a sad thing. Its a very sad thing for our country to see this. So, to be clear, comparing the defendant to al capone is usually something prosecutors or critics do. As a story of Crime And Punishment Capone is a person who did many bad things and got in trouble for only some of them, facing charges for tax evasion and not the other violence and murders his gang was accused of. You know, hes making over 3 million a year, but hes paid no taxes, nothings in his name. If we can establish any payments to him at all, we can prosecute him for income tax evasion. What . I said peck prosecute him for income tax evasion. Try a murdererer for not paying his taxes . Its better than nothing. Try a murderer for not paying his taxes. In real life, that 1931 trial was a national spectacle. Camera outside the chicago courtroom, citizens gathered out front, and obviously concerned about more than tax evasion. Because of his reputation as a violence gangster, also portrayed by robert de niro, there was a denial of violence with a twinkle in the eye. I grew up in a tough neighborhood and we used to say you can get further with a kind word and a gun than you can with just a kind word. And then that might have been true. Sometimes the reputation follows you. There is violence in chicago, of course, but not by me, and not by anybody i employ. Not by anybody i employ. Note, that is a specific denial of a conspiracy, which is, of course, a key charge in the russia probe. Now, that jury disagreed, capone caught an 11 year sentence, manafort faces Manyore Time Tha that if convicted. Dying in prison can change the minds of even the most stubborn
defendants which applies to tax evaders. The question that hangs over day duoof this trial, why is donald trump comparing his former Campaign Chief to a gangster . Could this trial change Paul Manaforts mind . Is he ready to face the risk of prison and death, pondering some later salvation. To quote another man steeped in the criminal mindset, the musician master p, the question may boil down is there heaven for a gangsta, is there even for a gangsta, gangsta. Im joined by elliott honeig, he led a case against and Richard Painter also back with me, a Senate Candidate and former lawyer in a republican administration. I begin with you, is there
heaven for a gangster, number one . Two, what in gods earth is donald trump doing comparing this man to al capone . And three, when you look at the legalities of this case, how does it relate to how you approached maffia . There are a lot of parallels between the cases i used to do going against the maffia and this case, but the number one similarity is youre trying to penetrate a closed, secretive, potentially criminal organization. The number one way you do that is by flipping people, getting cooperating witnesses. You hit on something. I think the president is probably scared to death that Paul Manafort may try to flip, if hes convicted. You read that as whats happening this week. In other words, for a long time trump dismissed manafort and avoided talking about him. Lately we showed hes been talking and tweeting more about him lately, a handful more tweets up from zero. That means what . He could be trying to soften up manafort. The biggest might mare for trump
is if manafort flips. I agree with you, i do not think Paul Manafort if he gets convicted to go die in jail. Hes 69 years old, and he will die behind bars. That is the change agent here . Yeah, i think it could be. You can cooperate after conviction. You may not get as good of a deal. Ive done it. I had a mob boss who we convicted of murder. He got sentenced to life. We thought he had dynamite information, same way mueller might think manafort has dynamite information. We went into the jail and asked him if he would cooperate. He said no, he was an oldschool standup guy. The point is, prosecutors are still sometimes willing to cooperate defendants after conviction. Your office, and this is the office that now is hajing tndli Michael Cohen case. Youre saying as a matter of prosecutorial tactics, you are prepared, even with a Life Sentence to dial part of that back to get information. Its a balance. How bad of a guy is it . But how good is his information . The guy i was talking about, we thought he had the keys to the castle . Manafort, can you imagine . Learn everything he knows, thats a gold mine. If i was in their shoes, id pay the price for it. Fascinating coming from you as someone who led the organized crime work. Thats not shoes many people have filled. As a prosecutor you know how to spot unanswered questions. You did not answer the master p question. Is there a heaven for gangsters . Yes, theyre sitting around having coffee in queens. That is nice. Richard painter, i turn to you on Donald Trumps shifting approach to manafort. Take a look at how he used to talk about im, this backs up the point he made he is warming to him after dismissing him. Take a look. Paul manafort was replaced long before the election took place. He was only there for a short period of time. Now, Paul Manaforts a nice guy. But, you know, he worked for me for a very short period of time, literally, like, what, a couple months, manafort has nothing to do with our campaign. How do you view that shift, which has clearly changed now that the trial began . Well, President Trump is very, very worried that Paul Manafort is going to flip on him. And i believe the prosecutors would offer manafort a very good deal because from a Law Enforcement perspective, while hes done some very bad things, he is not a threat to our society at this juncture. Donald trump and various other people who are in high parts of our government are a threat and theres an ongoing conspiracy to obstruct justice. There may very well be ongoing collusion with the russians that is extremely dangerous for our national security. So the prosecutors are going to offer manafort a very good deal. I certainly would if i were the prosecutors to get the information on the people who are really dangerous, who have been colluding with the
russians, obstructing justice, and really have betrayed our country. Yeah, if i were one of those people in the latter group id be scared to death of Paul Manafort cutting deal with the prosecutors. Tore thing about the capone argument is there even conservatives, right, who are not just reflexively trump critics who think this plays into some public onramp to what would be a very controversial pardon to say the least. Im reading from the spectator, conservative publication, quote, trump is using the capone comparison to set the stage to pull another arpaio, depict manafort s victim of the deep state, unjust predicament can only be rectified by a president ial pardon. Your thoughts . That could be the case as well. Theres a lot of signals being sent, at a minimum here. The other possibility is, again to use the mob lingo, manafort is being a standup guy, that means someone you dont plead, y