Transcripts For MSNBCW The Beat With Ari Melber 20191226 : v

Witnesses. Heres a quick fact check for you on all of that. Absolutely not true. Trump was invited to come testify in his defense, and trumps tirade comes as some possible cracks are forming on the republican side with one gop senator now saying she is, quote, disturbed with Mitch Mcconnell openly saying he will be in total coordination with the white house on the impeachment trial. Trump is backing that up. And its up to Mitch Mcconnell. And we have the majority, and now they want mcconnell to do wonderful things for them. Hes going to do what he wants to do. Very smart guy. Very good guy. Been a very fair guy. But republican senator Lisa Murkowski disagrees with that. I think it is fair to say that right now there is so much uncertainty. And in fairness, when i heard that i was disturbed. To me, it means that we have to take that step back from being hand in glove with the defense. And so i i heard what leader mcconnell had said. I happen to think that that has further confused the process. Murkowski is disturbed mcconnell said this. Everything i do during this, im coordinating with the white house counsel. There will be no difference between the president s position and our position as to how to handle this. Total coordination with the white house counsels office. All right. So, you just heard him say there very clearly total coordination with the white house. It comes as one former republican lawmaker is letting everyone know where he stands on this issue. Saying trump is psychologically, morally, intellectually, and emotionally unfit for office, adding we can only Hope Congress impeaches and removes him so we have a choice between two adults in 2020. Joining me now is former watergate prosecutor, nick acreman, margaret carlson, and Danielle Moody mills. Great to have everyone with us. Margaret, let me begin with you, if i may. The big question is is there going to be a domino effect now that weve heard from senator murkowski. Are we going to hear from others come forward with their own reservations . You know, murkowski is so conscientious, so straightforward, shes so press averse that as i was typing in her name today, it was autocorrected as moro skis, whatever that means, ed moro, perhaps. And others nobody asked for spying for christmas. She showed them what its like to have one by coming out on Christmas Eve and saying that she was disturbed. She didnt like that mcconnell was working, quote, hand in belove with trump and went as far as he did. The problem for mcconnell is he could have done everything he said he blurted out that he was going to do if he hadnt blurted it out. Hes becoming more like trump by doing so. Trump is for immediate gratification. Hes impulsive. Mcconnell is the opposite. But instead of trump moving towards mcconnell, mcconnell has moved towards him so that trump is the defacto majority leader and has probably made it much harder for mcconnell to do what he wanted to do. And murkowski may lead others to follow her as a result. Danielle, im curious to get your thoughts on this. Murkowski seems to at least not be afraid to break with the rest of the party. She was the only republican at the time to vote against Brett Kavanaugh despite a lot of people rumbling about it. She was the only one who did not vote for him. Is trump in real danger here or are we reading too much into what she said about this process . I try not to have a lot of hope in republicans these days because they always prove me right which is they dont ask for the gift of a spine or conscience or morals for the holidays. Thats exactly what they work against. So, while i appreciate murkowski coming out and saying what more republicans should be doing, the idea is were celebrating somebody for doing their job. Shes supposed to be a juror in the senate with the senate. Why are we celebrating the fact shes saying ill be open minded and hear this case out . Thats their job. They should be sneering at Mitch Mcconnell and Lindsey Graham and the rest of the republicans who are political ostriches right now burying their heads in the sand right now. So, am i little bit excited on this Christmas Holiday . Will i hold spirit the republicans will do the right thing . I guess. But at the end of the day they have proven to show us who they are, and we should believe them. The nancy pelosi doing the right thing by holding these articles and not transmitting them to the senate and by doing so giving republicans like Lisa Murkowski and others space and time to make these types of comments to add pressure to Mitch Mcconnell . Yes. And do you know what . I will say this. I have been the first person to talk badly about nancy pelosi wondering when impeachment was going to happen. But she is playing the right game right here. Mitch mcconnell has illustrated to the world that he has no intention of having a fair trial, that he is lock and step with the white house. So, by her holding on to the articles until she understands what the body is going to do is an important case. Hopefully mitt romney and others will join murkowski, but who knows. Im curious to get your thoughts. Impeachment is different than a trial. Mitch mcconnell certainly wants to portray this as a political process, not a judicial one. He keeps saying this is partisan. He says everyone is going to come in with their own personal biases which i find odd because jurors come in with biases but theyre encouraged to put those aside and look at the facts. The constitution itself prepares for a trial. You have documents that come before the fact finders which is the senate in this case. What is really going on here and what the republicans and certain people like donald trump and Mitch Mcconnell dread is the idea that donald trump could be called as a star witness. He is the witness who has the most Material Information on all of the facts here. If he claims this is so perfect, if he claim that is the call was perfect and they did nothing wrong, then why isnt he going to testify . This is not like a criminal trial where the defendant cannot testify and the prosecution cannot call the defendant. Thats because this is a civil matter. Trump has no fifth amendment privilege in term of refusing to get up on the witness stand. He has to get up if hes called. Oh, wow. And if hes testifying, theres no way he can talk himself out of this. Thats the problem that the republicans have. The facts are so overwhelming that donald trump was using the peoples money to shake down the president of ukraine. And he cant talk himself out of this. He can be cross examined. Hes going to lie on it. But the lies arent going to do any good in light of the facts upon which he can be cross examined. It sounds like youre saying theres no wiggle room, that if Mitch Mcconnell opens the door for at least one witness, if he doesnt have this ironclad meaning that the republicans shut this thing down before it starts we may end up with President Trump taking the witness stand. If i were the prosecutor for the house, the first witness i would call is donald j. Trump, put him up on that witness stand, first get a subpoena from justice roberts. If the subpoena doesnt do it, i would ask for a bench warrant. If he still refuses to come, the jury of senators has the right to take adverse inference just like in any case if somebody refuses to testify or takes the fifth amendment because a truthful answer would tend to incriminate them. That inference can be taken against donald trump. And on that basis alone, he should be removed from office. Do you think he would do that given the fact hes tweeted saying he may answer questions by the house when they were looking into hissi impeachment. Sure, whenever it suits his advantage. In the house im being denied due process because i cant testify and give my side of the story. The trial is where somebody gives their side of the story. Hes been accused. Hes been in a sense indicted. Thats what an impeachment is. This is his chance to come in and show the American People that he did nothing wrong. He just cant do that. Margaret let me get your thoughts let me just say im not a prosecutor. Hi, nick. But i watch a lot of law and order. And donald trump would be the last witness i would call after i called pompeo, mulvaney, and bolton because yes hes going to lie and yes attorney general barr will say he cant be prosecuted for it. But you would have all these other statements, all these other witnesses so it wouldnt matter if he lied. And maybe you wouldnt call him at all. Every civil case ive ever had, i always put the defendant on first. You look him into his story. You confront him with all of the contrary evidence. Then you bring on pompeo. None of these people are going to go down for donald trump. This is not like watergate where nixon sent all of his men into the grand jury, into the Senate Select committee and they all lied, wound up being charged with perjury and went to jail. Im going to go with the watergate prosecutor here over the law and order episode, but nothing against law and order. Let me get your thoughts about Mitch Mcconnell. There is an oped in kentucky calling him out saying short of declaring the war, the senate is about to conduct its gravest and most serious constitutional obligation to exercise the sole power to try impeachments. All senators should take their obligation of faithful impartiality seriously, especially mcconnell. History is watching and it will be a harsh judge. The writer, hes going to join us later in the program. But margaret, give me your reaction to what dave trot there said. Well, mcconnell is in a mind of sorts. Hes running for reelection. The deadline for a primary challenger is january 28th. He could have conjured up one in time to challenge mcconnell had mcconnell not done his bidding. On the other hand, mcconnell has to raise his right hand in an oath in which he swears to be impartial after hes already sworn hes not going to be impartial. And i dont know how he does that without purging himself. I mean, he would have to have a change of heart akin to saul on the road to demass cuss to be believed. I dont know what happens there. His popularity is already way down in kentucky. The republican governor who was supported by trump with two rallies lost anyway. He wasnt popular, but he lost anyway. So, trump is i mean mcconnell is hanging out there having thrown in his lot so heartily with trump on impeachment. All right. Everyone stay with me for a second because i want to bring in former florida congressman carlos carbea. I want to get your thoughts as a former member of congress. Mitch mcconnell coming under tremendous pressure from his own party with lisa with senator Lisa Murkowski. Should Mitch Mcconnell be worried about cracks within his own party . Certainly aeamon. A true institutionalist understands that its a coequal branch of government. Whats going to happen is that now after these comments by senator murkowski, other republicans, probably those republicans in vulnerable races in 2020, states like colorado, arizona, maine, those senators, collins, gardner, mcsally are going to start getting asked questions about what senator murkowski said and theyre going to be under pressure to at least sound to their voters like they want to have a serious trial in the senate where all the evidence is going to be weighed. So, i think people need to look out very closely for how those senators react to senator murkowskis comments. And then of course if they do follow her, at least in part, then that will increase pressure on senator mcconnell. Remember, this is a Senate Republican majority, but its only a threeseat majority. So, theres not a whole lot of room for error. So, i certainly think that these comments that senator murkowski made will have a tail and will be consequential. Let me ask you how confident you are the republicans wont be intimidated by donald trump. If you cross donald trump you do so at your own peril. If you disagree with him, perhaps thats a factor that led to your loss in congress. But the question then becomes, do other republicans fear donald trump that they are not going to step out of line . Well, eamon, my case was a little different. I used to represent the most democratic leaning district in the country so i helped me in my district. But i will say this. The president does demand absolute loyalty. For some of these senators and representatives that are in swing states, they really do require a unified Republican Base. And the bottom line is here and we havent discussed this yet tonight that the court of Public Opinion is what matters most. Still House Democrats have not convinced a Strong Majority of the American People that the president should be removed from office. And that Republican Base is solidly behind the president. A lot of these senators and representatives running for reelection as republicans will need that base of support. So, certainly the president does have the power to intimidate, to push members, and to demand that absolute loyalty. Well see. In the case of senator murkowski, senator romney, i think senator collins as well can be expected to be independent minded and speak their truth. Either way, for other senators and representatives, that remains to be seen. Let me play you another sound bite from senator murkowski about not prejudging the case. Listen to this. For me to prejudge and say theres nothing there or on the other hand he should be impeached yesterday, thats wrong. In my view, thats wrong. Danielle, you look at some of the comments that have been made by senators like Lindsey Graham and others, i think senator john kennedy from louisiana, theyve concluded that the president has done nothing wrong. Theyre not even waiting for the facts. Theyre just basing it on what has been said in the house impeachment hearings. And thats the problem, eamon, is that the constituents that they have need to be making the phone calls, need to be sending emails and saying to them we want a fair trial. This is wrong. What the president has done, what the house has laid out is problematic, and we know that if this has been barack obama, if it had been bill clinton, if it had been any democrat, we know exactly what republicans would be doing right now. The fact is it is up to us, the people, to call on our representatives that we elected to do the right thing. Thats the only way theyre going to do the right thing is if we demand it. Our constitutional framers probably not envision a situation where the senate under the control of the same party of the president would be so much in lock step with the president on something as serious as impeachment. I would think the framers are rolling in their grave right now because this is exactly the kind of situation that they thought impeachment ought to be used for. Then youve got a president who has basically bullied the entire Republican Group into going his way. The question is whether or not others will have the courage that Lisa Murkowski has to move this forward in the way that the framers envisioned it. All right. Thank you very much for joining us this evening. Ahead Mitch Mcconnells total coordination with the white house sparks a blistering oped. The writer is joining us on the beat exclusively. And Rudy Giuliani is making a Public Defense for the president and attacking the Office Investigating him. Plus Michael Dyson breaks down the primary, jayzs impact on politics, and why trump is always evoking his name. Donald trump and a new holiday con t controversy. Were going to explain that. Br, you may have gingivitis. And the clock could be ticking towards bad breath, receding gums, and possibly. Tooth loss. Help turn back the clock on gingivitis with parodontax. Leave bleeding gums behind. Parodontax. Its finally time for. Geico sequels classic geico heroes, starring in six new commercials, with jawdropping savings. Vote for your favorites at geico. Com sequels ahhh, which way do i go . i dont know, im voting for our sequels. With geico, the savings keep on going to a screen near you. Not the leg you dang woodchucks geico sequels. Vote and enter to win today when youyou spend lessfair, and get way more. Cks so you can bring your vision to life and save in more ways than one. For small prices, you can build big dreams, spend less, get way more. Shop everything home at wayfair. Com im part of a community of problem solvers. We make ideas grow. From an everyday solution. To one that can take on a bigger challenge. We are solving problems that improve lives. Mostly. You make time. When you can. But sometimes life gets in the way, and that stubborn fat just wont go away. Coolsculpting takes you further. A nonsurgical treatment that targets, freezes, and eliminates treated fat cells for good. Discuss coolsculpting with your doctor. Some common sideeffects include temporary numbness, discomfort, and swelling. Dont imagine results, see them. Coolsculpting, take yourself further. Save 100 on your coolsculpting treatment. Text resolution to 65190 to learn more. All right. Trumps personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani out with a new defense for the president. Today tweeting that, quote, removing a president less than a year before an election must only occur if his remaining in office irreparably damages the nation. Giuliani is preparing for his own legal showdown. Hes still pushing the same scheme that got trump impeached in the first place. Getting illegal election help. He refused to say if he will testify in the impeachment trial, but he is speaking out in a wild and frankly quite bizarre interview with the new york magazines olivia newsy, the Southern District of new york. Looking into money laundering, obstruction of justice, and Mitch Mcconnell<\/a> openly saying he will be in total coordination with the white house on the impeachment trial. Trump is backing that up. And its up to Mitch Mcconnell<\/a>. And we have the majority, and now they want mcconnell to do wonderful things for them. Hes going to do what he wants to do. Very smart guy. Very good guy. Been a very fair guy. But republican senator Lisa Murkowski<\/a> disagrees with that. I think it is fair to say that right now there is so much uncertainty. And in fairness, when i heard that i was disturbed. To me, it means that we have to take that step back from being hand in glove with the defense. And so i i heard what leader mcconnell had said. I happen to think that that has further confused the process. Murkowski is disturbed mcconnell said this. Everything i do during this, im coordinating with the white house counsel. There will be no difference between the president s position and our position as to how to handle this. Total coordination with the white house counsels office. All right. So, you just heard him say there very clearly total coordination with the white house. It comes as one former republican lawmaker is letting everyone know where he stands on this issue. Saying trump is psychologically, morally, intellectually, and emotionally unfit for office, adding we can only Hope Congress<\/a> impeaches and removes him so we have a choice between two adults in 2020. Joining me now is former watergate prosecutor, nick acreman, margaret carlson, and Danielle Moody<\/a> mills. Great to have everyone with us. Margaret, let me begin with you, if i may. The big question is is there going to be a domino effect now that weve heard from senator murkowski. Are we going to hear from others come forward with their own reservations . You know, murkowski is so conscientious, so straightforward, shes so press averse that as i was typing in her name today, it was autocorrected as moro skis, whatever that means, ed moro, perhaps. And others nobody asked for spying for christmas. She showed them what its like to have one by coming out on Christmas Eve<\/a> and saying that she was disturbed. She didnt like that mcconnell was working, quote, hand in belove with trump and went as far as he did. The problem for mcconnell is he could have done everything he said he blurted out that he was going to do if he hadnt blurted it out. Hes becoming more like trump by doing so. Trump is for immediate gratification. Hes impulsive. Mcconnell is the opposite. But instead of trump moving towards mcconnell, mcconnell has moved towards him so that trump is the defacto majority leader and has probably made it much harder for mcconnell to do what he wanted to do. And murkowski may lead others to follow her as a result. Danielle, im curious to get your thoughts on this. Murkowski seems to at least not be afraid to break with the rest of the party. She was the only republican at the time to vote against Brett Kavanaugh<\/a> despite a lot of people rumbling about it. She was the only one who did not vote for him. Is trump in real danger here or are we reading too much into what she said about this process . I try not to have a lot of hope in republicans these days because they always prove me right which is they dont ask for the gift of a spine or conscience or morals for the holidays. Thats exactly what they work against. So, while i appreciate murkowski coming out and saying what more republicans should be doing, the idea is were celebrating somebody for doing their job. Shes supposed to be a juror in the senate with the senate. Why are we celebrating the fact shes saying ill be open minded and hear this case out . Thats their job. They should be sneering at Mitch Mcconnell<\/a> and Lindsey Graham<\/a> and the rest of the republicans who are political ostriches right now burying their heads in the sand right now. So, am i little bit excited on this Christmas Holiday<\/a> . Will i hold spirit the republicans will do the right thing . I guess. But at the end of the day they have proven to show us who they are, and we should believe them. The nancy pelosi doing the right thing by holding these articles and not transmitting them to the senate and by doing so giving republicans like Lisa Murkowski<\/a> and others space and time to make these types of comments to add pressure to Mitch Mcconnell<\/a> . Yes. And do you know what . I will say this. I have been the first person to talk badly about nancy pelosi wondering when impeachment was going to happen. But she is playing the right game right here. Mitch mcconnell has illustrated to the world that he has no intention of having a fair trial, that he is lock and step with the white house. So, by her holding on to the articles until she understands what the body is going to do is an important case. Hopefully mitt romney and others will join murkowski, but who knows. Im curious to get your thoughts. Impeachment is different than a trial. Mitch mcconnell certainly wants to portray this as a political process, not a judicial one. He keeps saying this is partisan. He says everyone is going to come in with their own personal biases which i find odd because jurors come in with biases but theyre encouraged to put those aside and look at the facts. The constitution itself prepares for a trial. You have documents that come before the fact finders which is the senate in this case. What is really going on here and what the republicans and certain people like donald trump and Mitch Mcconnell<\/a> dread is the idea that donald trump could be called as a star witness. He is the witness who has the most Material Information<\/a> on all of the facts here. If he claims this is so perfect, if he claim that is the call was perfect and they did nothing wrong, then why isnt he going to testify . This is not like a criminal trial where the defendant cannot testify and the prosecution cannot call the defendant. Thats because this is a civil matter. Trump has no fifth amendment privilege in term of refusing to get up on the witness stand. He has to get up if hes called. Oh, wow. And if hes testifying, theres no way he can talk himself out of this. Thats the problem that the republicans have. The facts are so overwhelming that donald trump was using the peoples money to shake down the president of ukraine. And he cant talk himself out of this. He can be cross examined. Hes going to lie on it. But the lies arent going to do any good in light of the facts upon which he can be cross examined. It sounds like youre saying theres no wiggle room, that if Mitch Mcconnell<\/a> opens the door for at least one witness, if he doesnt have this ironclad meaning that the republicans shut this thing down before it starts we may end up with President Trump<\/a> taking the witness stand. If i were the prosecutor for the house, the first witness i would call is donald j. Trump, put him up on that witness stand, first get a subpoena from justice roberts. If the subpoena doesnt do it, i would ask for a bench warrant. If he still refuses to come, the jury of senators has the right to take adverse inference just like in any case if somebody refuses to testify or takes the fifth amendment because a truthful answer would tend to incriminate them. That inference can be taken against donald trump. And on that basis alone, he should be removed from office. Do you think he would do that given the fact hes tweeted saying he may answer questions by the house when they were looking into hissi impeachment. Sure, whenever it suits his advantage. In the house im being denied due process because i cant testify and give my side of the story. The trial is where somebody gives their side of the story. Hes been accused. Hes been in a sense indicted. Thats what an impeachment is. This is his chance to come in and show the American People<\/a> that he did nothing wrong. He just cant do that. Margaret let me get your thoughts let me just say im not a prosecutor. Hi, nick. But i watch a lot of law and order. And donald trump would be the last witness i would call after i called pompeo, mulvaney, and bolton because yes hes going to lie and yes attorney general barr will say he cant be prosecuted for it. But you would have all these other statements, all these other witnesses so it wouldnt matter if he lied. And maybe you wouldnt call him at all. Every civil case ive ever had, i always put the defendant on first. You look him into his story. You confront him with all of the contrary evidence. Then you bring on pompeo. None of these people are going to go down for donald trump. This is not like watergate where nixon sent all of his men into the grand jury, into the Senate Select<\/a> committee and they all lied, wound up being charged with perjury and went to jail. Im going to go with the watergate prosecutor here over the law and order episode, but nothing against law and order. Let me get your thoughts about Mitch Mcconnell<\/a>. There is an oped in kentucky calling him out saying short of declaring the war, the senate is about to conduct its gravest and most serious constitutional obligation to exercise the sole power to try impeachments. All senators should take their obligation of faithful impartiality seriously, especially mcconnell. History is watching and it will be a harsh judge. The writer, hes going to join us later in the program. But margaret, give me your reaction to what dave trot there said. Well, mcconnell is in a mind of sorts. Hes running for reelection. The deadline for a primary challenger is january 28th. He could have conjured up one in time to challenge mcconnell had mcconnell not done his bidding. On the other hand, mcconnell has to raise his right hand in an oath in which he swears to be impartial after hes already sworn hes not going to be impartial. And i dont know how he does that without purging himself. I mean, he would have to have a change of heart akin to saul on the road to demass cuss to be believed. I dont know what happens there. His popularity is already way down in kentucky. The republican governor who was supported by trump with two rallies lost anyway. He wasnt popular, but he lost anyway. So, trump is i mean mcconnell is hanging out there having thrown in his lot so heartily with trump on impeachment. All right. Everyone stay with me for a second because i want to bring in former florida congressman carlos carbea. I want to get your thoughts as a former member of congress. Mitch mcconnell coming under tremendous pressure from his own party with lisa with senator Lisa Murkowski<\/a>. Should Mitch Mcconnell<\/a> be worried about cracks within his own party . Certainly aeamon. A true institutionalist understands that its a coequal branch of government. Whats going to happen is that now after these comments by senator murkowski, other republicans, probably those republicans in vulnerable races in 2020, states like colorado, arizona, maine, those senators, collins, gardner, mcsally are going to start getting asked questions about what senator murkowski said and theyre going to be under pressure to at least sound to their voters like they want to have a serious trial in the senate where all the evidence is going to be weighed. So, i think people need to look out very closely for how those senators react to senator murkowskis comments. And then of course if they do follow her, at least in part, then that will increase pressure on senator mcconnell. Remember, this is a Senate Republican<\/a> majority, but its only a threeseat majority. So, theres not a whole lot of room for error. So, i certainly think that these comments that senator murkowski made will have a tail and will be consequential. Let me ask you how confident you are the republicans wont be intimidated by donald trump. If you cross donald trump you do so at your own peril. If you disagree with him, perhaps thats a factor that led to your loss in congress. But the question then becomes, do other republicans fear donald trump that they are not going to step out of line . Well, eamon, my case was a little different. I used to represent the most democratic leaning district in the country so i helped me in my district. But i will say this. The president does demand absolute loyalty. For some of these senators and representatives that are in swing states, they really do require a unified Republican Base<\/a>. And the bottom line is here and we havent discussed this yet tonight that the court of Public Opinion<\/a> is what matters most. Still House Democrats<\/a> have not convinced a Strong Majority<\/a> of the American People<\/a> that the president should be removed from office. And that Republican Base<\/a> is solidly behind the president. A lot of these senators and representatives running for reelection as republicans will need that base of support. So, certainly the president does have the power to intimidate, to push members, and to demand that absolute loyalty. Well see. In the case of senator murkowski, senator romney, i think senator collins as well can be expected to be independent minded and speak their truth. Either way, for other senators and representatives, that remains to be seen. Let me play you another sound bite from senator murkowski about not prejudging the case. Listen to this. For me to prejudge and say theres nothing there or on the other hand he should be impeached yesterday, thats wrong. In my view, thats wrong. Danielle, you look at some of the comments that have been made by senators like Lindsey Graham<\/a> and others, i think senator john kennedy from louisiana, theyve concluded that the president has done nothing wrong. Theyre not even waiting for the facts. Theyre just basing it on what has been said in the house impeachment hearings. And thats the problem, eamon, is that the constituents that they have need to be making the phone calls, need to be sending emails and saying to them we want a fair trial. This is wrong. What the president has done, what the house has laid out is problematic, and we know that if this has been barack obama, if it had been bill clinton, if it had been any democrat, we know exactly what republicans would be doing right now. The fact is it is up to us, the people, to call on our representatives that we elected to do the right thing. Thats the only way theyre going to do the right thing is if we demand it. Our constitutional framers probably not envision a situation where the senate under the control of the same party of the president would be so much in lock step with the president on something as serious as impeachment. I would think the framers are rolling in their grave right now because this is exactly the kind of situation that they thought impeachment ought to be used for. Then youve got a president who has basically bullied the entire Republican Group<\/a> into going his way. The question is whether or not others will have the courage that Lisa Murkowski<\/a> has to move this forward in the way that the framers envisioned it. All right. Thank you very much for joining us this evening. Ahead Mitch Mcconnell<\/a>s total coordination with the white house sparks a blistering oped. The writer is joining us on the beat exclusively. And Rudy Giuliani<\/a> is making a Public Defense<\/a> for the president and attacking the Office Investigating<\/a> him. Plus Michael Dyson<\/a> breaks down the primary, jayzs impact on politics, and why trump is always evoking his name. Donald trump and a new holiday con t controversy. Were going to explain that. Br, you may have gingivitis. And the clock could be ticking towards bad breath, receding gums, and possibly. Tooth loss. Help turn back the clock on gingivitis with parodontax. Leave bleeding gums behind. Parodontax. Its finally time for. Geico sequels classic geico heroes, starring in six new commercials, with jawdropping savings. Vote for your favorites at geico. Com sequels ahhh, which way do i go . i dont know, im voting for our sequels. With geico, the savings keep on going to a screen near you. Not the leg you dang woodchucks geico sequels. Vote and enter to win today when youyou spend lessfair, and get way more. Cks so you can bring your vision to life and save in more ways than one. For small prices, you can build big dreams, spend less, get way more. Shop everything home at wayfair. Com im part of a community of problem solvers. We make ideas grow. From an everyday solution. To one that can take on a bigger challenge. We are solving problems that improve lives. Mostly. You make time. When you can. But sometimes life gets in the way, and that stubborn fat just wont go away. Coolsculpting takes you further. A nonsurgical treatment that targets, freezes, and eliminates treated fat cells for good. Discuss coolsculpting with your doctor. Some common sideeffects include temporary numbness, discomfort, and swelling. Dont imagine results, see them. Coolsculpting, take yourself further. Save 100 on your coolsculpting treatment. Text resolution to 65190 to learn more. All right. Trumps personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani<\/a> out with a new defense for the president. Today tweeting that, quote, removing a president less than a year before an election must only occur if his remaining in office irreparably damages the nation. Giuliani is preparing for his own legal showdown. Hes still pushing the same scheme that got trump impeached in the first place. Getting illegal election help. He refused to say if he will testify in the impeachment trial, but he is speaking out in a wild and frankly quite bizarre interview with the new york magazines olivia newsy, the Southern District<\/a> of new york. Looking into money laundering, obstruction of justice, and Campaign Finance<\/a> violations. Giuliani saying this, if they are investigating me, theyre expletives, absolutely expletives if theyre investigating me, going on to call his former colleagues idiots and a trumpderanged bunch of silly new york liberals. Now pressed on those ukrainian dealings, giuliani says he has no business interests in ukraine, a claim he made in an interview just last month. I have no financial interest in the ukraine. Im not going to financially profit from anything that i know in the ukraine. Look, you know, i have no business interests in ukraine. It is untrue. It is false. You heard him there, no business interests in ukraine. Then he proceeded to tell reporters about two business deals in ukraine while still seeking four or five others. Meanwhile, giulianis own role in the ukraine aid scandal is under scrutiny in congress. When asked about the call logs and entail report, suggesting giuliani talk with someone at the white house at key points during the ukraine aid conversations, he says i dont think i talked to omb at all. Its not clear. I dont even remember. Amid concern that is the former mayor appears to be increasingly unhinged, he also claims that trump hads been annoyed that he hasnt been spreading more of his findings on tv. Appearances that led to moments like this. Watch. Theres no claim in a lawsuit that joe biden no, no, no. 20 years of the Washington Press<\/a> corp. That was well get to that. I say brother, cut it out, as opposed to i dont know about it. I didnt hear it. And you all buy that. Bull. Go to ukraine. Rudy, rudy. Ive got a hard break coming up. We have the transcript of the call. Shhh. I know you want to defend it so bad. I dont want to defend anything. I am asking questions. You do. You do. It is pathetic. We have the perfect guests on this, one of giulianis former colleagues at sdny and one who worked for him as mayor. Were back in 30 seconds. Joining me now is former federal prosecutor john flannery. Hes giulianis former colleague in the Southern District<\/a> of new york. Here he is with giuliani back when they were both prosecutors. And ken freedman who worked for the 1993 campaign for mayor and wrote this op said saying what happened to Rudy Giuliani<\/a>. Saying the man i worked for in 1993 is not the man who lies for donald trump. Let get your response to this latest interview, this bizarre interview . What do you make of it . The word running around in my head, you just said it, was bizarre. I couldnt imagine a greater contrast than between those interviews that you showed of him contradicting himself and e everything else. I think it would be just pathetic if he wasnt so dangerous and destructive, that a man who once had a storied career has become this man who is amoral, cant tell the truth, cant possibly do whats just and right, and is lying for the president. I cant imagine how he would be a witness at a trial in the senate or otherwise. But if he were, hes made so many statements, he would be the kind of witness if he were called on the stand you would have all this material that you could use to contradict him in the various ways. He is also a man who twice has put the president in peril. One was when he gave truthful admissions, if you will, seemingly unconsciously in the cohen matters. Listen to the tapes, and waived privilege. Then he also bragged about the investigation in ukraine and said sure we did that, whats wrong with that, and so forth, leading us to a place where then we had the whistleblower. And its like he gave license to other people to come forward, patriots who were Public Servants<\/a> who tell us the truth while the white house withholds critical witnesses. So, i think rudy has become a twoedged sword. On the one hand, he acts crazily. And on the other he is connected with all these people and disclosed information that made the impeachment possible. You knew him from your time on the campaign with him. What do you make of the interview . I think the idea is to continue to create chaos. You can picture he and trump in the oval office weaving all these schemes. And rudy has said his goal is to disrupt the world, and hes doing that. Dont take your eye off the ball, dont look behind the curtain, and really dont listen to what he is saying because it seems on its face insane and conspiratorial. But i think it plays to his base. Its red meat to a dog. So, Something Like<\/a> this would have been calculated, this interview where he goes out and gives mixed messages and interviews. Yeah, i believe it is. Obviously one bloody mary is his limit, not two. And hes gotten progressively more sloppy. But i think its all part of a calculated plan. Let me ask you about his legacy because giuliani mentioned people concerned about his legacy and he responded by saying i believe the exact quote is my attitude about my legacy is f it. Right. He said hell be dead. He doesnt care. What do you think his legacy will be . It would have been americas mayor dies. Now itll be man who lied trump, americas mayor dies. John, let me get your thoughts because giuliani has a theory on why the sdny is investigating him. He says they are just jealous. In the interview, the quote is it is a terrible thing to say because it will get the Southern District<\/a> all upset, but i know why theyre all upset. Theyve never done anything like me since me. They havent done an eight years like i did since i left being u. S. Attorney, nothing close. What do you think . Is that do you think theyre jealous of him . First of all, his years were not just golden years. He had a up canal ouple of sensational prosecutions that got thrown out and dismissed. He took great pride of arresting people down in wall street. He arrested two people and had a perp walk and had to walk away from that prosecution. The Southern District<\/a> is in a port city. We have every kind of crime imaginable, and it takes the most dedicated and complicated and worthy prosecutors to figure it out, to search it out, to work with a variety of agencies and to bring cases which they have brought against organized crime involving terrorism, involving financial crimes, just streets below our main office. People went to that office because it was considered the pre premiere office. It was considered the solvereig district of new york. Just before i went to the office, the u. S. Attorney approved the indictment of his own loss, john mitchell. Thats independence. Those are big cases. Rudy giuliani is just suffering from terminal hubris if you will. Hes doing what every cornered rat does in the Southern District<\/a>, throwing bricker bats and slanders at the people who may ultimately indict him. On a personal level what is it like to see this change happen, a guy who has a storied resume despite any misgivings that may have happened during that time. But more importantly to see him fall from grace in the eyes of so many, what do you make of it on a personal level . I care about my legacy and hes hurt by resume and a lot of other people who work very hard to clean up this broken city when he was mayor. So, its had a lot of impact on a lot of lives watching his deterioration. Remember the u. S. Attorney was pointed indefinitely by President Trump<\/a>, berman, right . So, this isnt a witch hunt investigation by the Southern District<\/a>. This is a real investigation. And it looks like john could confirm this. It looks like theyre building a rico case which rudy, in effect, perfected going after the mob and after wall street. Definitely a whole other segment we could spend hours on. Gentleman i appreciate both of your thoughts. Thank you both very much. Ahead, a scathing oped from Mitch Mcconnell<\/a>s hometown newspaper hammers him. The writer is here exclusively. Also a new trump controversy involving Macaulay Culkin<\/a> and canada. In america, the zip code youre born in can determine your future. The y helps fill the opportunity gap with Education Programs<\/a> for all. For a better us, donate to your local y today. Can you tell me the story again . Every family has their own unique story. Give your family the chance to discover theirs this holiday season, with ancestry. This holiday season, you may have gingivitis. When you brush, and the clock could be ticking towards bad breath, receding gums, and possibly. Tooth loss. Help turn back the clock on gingivitis with parodontax. Leave bleeding gums behind. Parodontax. A peaceful night sleep without only imagine. Frequent heartburn waking him up. Now that dream is a reality. Nexium 24hr stops acid before it starts for allday, allnight protection. Can you imagine 24 hours without heartburn . I need all the breaks, that i can get. At liberty butchumal cut. Liberty biberty cut. Well dub it. Liberty mutual customizes your Car Insurance<\/a> so you only pay for what you need. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Itreat them all as if, they are hot and energized. Stay away from any downed wire, call 911 and call pg e right after so we can both respond out and keep the public safe. A scathing oped from mcconnells hometown newspaper saying mcconnell is about to violate multiple oaths of office, quote, mcconnells loyalty to trump should not overwhelm his loyalty to the constitution. All senators should take their obligation of faithful impartiality seriously, especially mcconnell, adding history is watching and it will be a harsh judge. Joining me is the write r of that oped, ken greenfield. Ken, great to have you with us. Thank you so much for joining us. Why did you feel the need to write this oped and speak out . Thanks, ayman, its great to be here. In my view of the constitution, senator mcconnell is about to violate two. The president has violated his oath of office. There are only two other oaths mentioned in the constitution. One is in article six which every public official takes to support and protect the constitution. Theres another oath mentioned in article one, and it set out that when the senators sit to try impeachment, they must sit by oath and be bound by oath or affirmation which means the framers knew that this was one of the gravest things that the senate would ever do. And they shouldnt just take it as a political matter. Its a legal remedy for abuse of power of the president. And they have to be impartial and have to take it very seriously, with the gravity that it deserves. Not to go down a History Lesson<\/a> here, but given the fact that we are finding ourselves in this moment, i want to ask you a question that i also asked nick acreman earlier which is do you think the framers of the constitution ever envisioned a moment where the senate which is supposed to be part of a coequal branch of the government would be so coopted by the president , a separate branch of the government, that a simple oath like this that youre concerned about could be violated so easily. Not at all. The party in the way that we know them did not exist at the time. Theres supposed to be a separation of powers and balance of powers between the congress and the president. It would have surprised them that the gop would have been essentially mirroring the president s strategy in the senate. Senator mcconnell say constitutional officer. He has an obligation to make sure that this trial is impartial, and its like hes in a sense the foreman of the jury. So, the foreman of the jury is working with the defense to figure out strategy to get the defendant acquitted. And thats inconsistent with what i think the text of the constitution requires. What kind of reaction are you getting from your fellow ke kentuckians today . I heard about this email first early on in the morning, i got an email from a former student who was tlo. And who knows, kentucky i think is a state that has been firmly in trumps camp. But i think a lot of people in kentucky are very take their honesty seriously. And i know that senator mcconnell is not the most popular politician in the state. The governors race was just won by a democrat. So, i think theres some reason to believe that my fellow kentuckians will be part of this effort to make sure that senator mcconnell takes care that he abides to his with his oaths. Its going to be something we watch in 2020 very closely. Kent greenfield, appreciate your time. Jayz and hip hops evolving politics. Michael eric dyson on that next. Politics Michael Eric Dyson<\/a> on that next. At fidelity, we make sure you have a clear plan to cover the essentials in retirement, as well as all the things you want to do. And on the way, youll get timely investment help to keep you on the right track, without the unnecessary fees you might expect from so many financial firms. Because when you have a partner who gives you clarity at every step, theres nothing to stop you from moving forward. Who gives you clarity at every step, fred would do anything for his daughter get in fred even if it means being the back half of a unicorn. 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That many but right now, is not the time to talk about it. So when youre ready, search my denture care. Poligrip and polident. Fixed. Fresh. And just between us. Jayz and politics, two passion points for the beat. Michael sat down with Michael Eric Dyson<\/a> on his new book tackling both. If you follow President Trump<\/a>, he attacks one more. We dont need jayz to fill up arenas. They say trumps language is very tough. Did you ever hear jayz . Someone inform jayz, black unemployment is recorded at the lowest rate ever recorded. J zay was using the f word all over the place and then say i use bad language. It approximate aside the hypocrisy of trump protesting to the rhetorical vulgarity there and ask why the jayz obsession. Theres a scholar of music and poll politics you probably know who argues it comes back to jealousy and politics. Obama and jay are both tall, talented, and tremendously charismatic men who used words to argue. Now an american icon, selfmade billionaire who he provides in a new book jayz made in america. We talk about music and culture a lot. Were really into jayz. Whats interesting is this book puts more meat on the bones of why this is so relevant to our society, to our politics, to what kind of america we want to be. Im thrilled to welcome New York Times<\/a> best selling author professor Michael Eric Dyson<\/a>, friend of the beat. My friend its always great to be here and never more has the name of your show, the beat been more relevant to me writing this book. Shout out. You run this story through the layers of jayz. Donald trump knows him for what we just mentioned. Other people know him for celebrity stories. What are you trying to get across about the fullness of his life. I started with hustling, looking at his background and the forces that shaped him. He says the teachers couldnt reach me and my mama couldnt beat me. So, with that disdain in my membrane, blank the world. Hes giving explanation of what drove him to a life of hustling on the streets. Walter mcdougal says that hustling is the central motif of american society. What he studied to win a pulitzer prize, jayz understood. Trying to rip people off in the like and the good part of it, america always looking for the next story, the next idea, the next scheme to make one rich or to enrich the nation, jayz combined both. I look at hustling, his poetic invention, and his political, if you will, circumstances, ideas, and conditions that he addresses and how he has tried to unite them as an entrepreneur and a businessman whos also a social activist. You talk about hustling. People also call it working. Some people call it trapping. All of this fitting into a model of american capitalism where you are on the wrong line with your access to cal tal, with your connections, with often your race, then what youre doing is delegitimized and yet it was shown through his life and you explore this in the book that he applies and maximized the same skills on the right line. Why is it important to walk people through that because ive seen it said on the internet, when Hillary Clinton<\/a> was talking about him, people were saying why are you praising this, quote, drug dealer. Excellent point. Brilliantly set up as you always do. It is absolutely true that america begins with a great crime. America is rooted in the mendacity of em gracibracing id that it undercuts. Many American Families<\/a> that two on to become great political families were born in crime. Moon shine run in the backwoods of app la cha. The idealism and the mythology of their inherit greatness whereas black hustling is seen with an asterisk that it is an inferior model of applying the work ethic. But i would aargue its a greater attempt. When people tell me how could you write a book about a guy who sold drugs, we write books about people who sold human beings, j and still see their greatness. Selling drugs pales inlook, yae its a cautionary tale. He looks at the sense of regret he has. Hes called himself apanimal for having sold those drugs, so he overcomes that story and in doing that he tries to inspire a nation to do the same thing and use its hustle or elbow grease as my father calls it to make a legitimate living. I love the lessons that are sprinkled through his work. When you listen closely you can see the layers and most art has those layers. Lets take a brief listen to jayz speaking in his own words on netflix. Hes bringing out an ugly side of america that we wanted to believe was gone, and its still here and weve still got to deal with it. We have to have the conversation, we have to have tough conversation. We have to talk about the nword and talk about why white men are so privileged in this country. Jayzs politics, what did you learn as you dug into that . That scene, by the way, you played there, what is he talking about . The use of the nword and theres a difference between the er hard ending and ga ending where black people have tried to appropriate it. He wants to talk about why it is this word has resurfaced and what it is to the attraction of that term that gives people such satisfaction and he talks about dealing with the politics of this american society, trying to grapple who we are. So here hes comparing the invidious forms of racial terror to american terror and suggesting if you understand one, youll understand the other. So jayz is trying to grapple with racism, white supremacy, antisemitism, antiarabism and all the isms that congregate together. What hes trying to do is live out the creed of america, e plurbus unum. And those who would participate in this nation as he does as an american citizen giving his best to the nation and expecting that we would all make this nation better with our gifts by staying in our own lane doing what we do best. Ive got one more topic i want to get to as we do this, if we can get into immunity and impunitive black masculinity. Telling the world i never cry, if i did id cray ice because tears alone were considered weakness in his community but really the way america treats men and saying the pain is real but how can you heal what you never reveal . What does it mean to you to see him grow up and actually be allowed to turn 50 when so many of his peers and so many black men throughout American History<\/a> are cut down before their time . So whats interesting here is that youre absolutely right. Jayz says i cant see them coming down my eyes so ill make the song cry, that clinical distance, that dispassion he exhibits, i am not the person who will be involved, i will not be emotionally invested. Hes put away poisonous patriarchy and acknowledge he was wrong. Can you imagine telling the truth to the world about your sin, your infidelity, about your cheating on your wife, having been called to account and you could have easily deflected it but you embraced it. You talked about going to therapy, needing to overcome those old molded days about masculinity, your mothers sexuality as a lesbian and you embraced the full range of masculinities and its vulnerabilities. Jayz has emerged as a spokesman and therefore to resonate more fully with the women and others in our lives. Michael, we come to you for wisdom, politics, america and of course hip hop. I hope everyone checks out the jayz book and thanks for coming on the beat. Thanks as always for having me my brother. Thanks as alwaysg me my brother. And save in more ways than one. For small prices, you can build big dreams, spend less, get way more. Shop everything home at wayfair. Com steven could only imaginem 24hr to trenjoying a spicy taco. Burn, now, his world explodes with flavor. Nexium 24hr stops acid before it starts for allday allnight protection. Can you imagine 24hours without heartburn . [sneeare you ok . Fles] yah, its just a cold. Its not just a cold if you have high blood pressure. Most cold medicines may raise blood pressure. Coricidin hbp is the. 1 brand that gives. Powerful cold relief without raising your blood pressure. Are Critical Skills<\/a> for scientists at 3m. One of the products i helped develop was a softer, more secure diaper closure. As a mom, i knew it had to work. There were babies involved. And they werent saying much. I envisioned what its like for babies to have diapers around them. Thats what we do at 3m, we listen to people, even those who dont have a voice. At the end of the day, we are people helping people. Were portuguese . I thought we were hungarian. Can you tell me that story again . Behind every question is a story waiting to be discovered. This holiday, start the journey with a dna kit from ancestry. This holiday, start the journey with a dna kit you may have gingivitis. When you brush, and the clock could be ticking towards bad breath, receding gums, and possibly. Tooth loss. Help turn back the clock on gingivitis with parodontax. Leave bleeding gums behind. Parodontax. And i approve this message. Climate is the number one priority. I would declare a state of emergency on day one. Congress has never passed an important climate bill, ever. This is a problem which continues to get worse. Ive spent a decade fighting and beating oil companies, stopping pipelines, stopping fossil fuel plants, ensuring clean energy across the country. How are we going to pull this country together . We take on the biggest challenge in history, we save the world and we do it together. Trump is in another controversy about this. Excuse me, wheres the lobby . Down the hall and to the left. Thanks. The Canadian Broadcasting Corporation<\/a> cut trumps home alone 2 cameo that you just saw there from their christmas broadcast. Saying it was edited to allow for commercial time in the format. Donald trump calling it pathetic but the cbc said it actually happened in 2014, and many on social media are applauding the move. That does it for me. Ill see you back here tonight. Hardball is next. Crack in the gop wall. Lets play hardball. Good evening, im Steve Kornacki<\/a> in for chris matthews. President trump went on the attack today slamming democrats in particular House Speaker<\/a> nancy pelosi over his impeachment. The president fired off a series of tweets this morning saying in part, quote, do nothing democrats said they wanted to rush everything through the senate and calling democrats liars. It followed a pair of tweets on christmas night going after","publisher":{"@type":"Organization","name":"archive.org","logo":{"@type":"ImageObject","width":"800","height":"600","url":"\/\/ia903101.us.archive.org\/16\/items\/MSNBCW_20191226_230000_The_Beat_With_Ari_Melber\/MSNBCW_20191226_230000_The_Beat_With_Ari_Melber.thumbs\/MSNBCW_20191226_230000_The_Beat_With_Ari_Melber_000001.jpg"}},"autauthor":{"@type":"Organization"},"author":{"sameAs":"archive.org","name":"archive.org"}}],"coverageEndTime":"20240617T12:35:10+00:00"}