Change before, but now how best to bridge. Lets dig into this with malika and at the table in new york, were lucky to have dr. Maria haberfeld, law forever at jon jay college. Welcome to both you. Thank you. I want to started with you, malik, on something the president decided not to do, which is make major changes to the program where local Police Departments are supplied with military style equipment. I wondered if you could make the case for why local Police Departments might need that type of weaponry. Has there been a specific situation where its been used and been required . What i can tell you, day in and day out, Police Departments use Armored Vehicles in barricade person situation or very hazardous situations in order to protect the lives of those officers who are answering those calls. I use a very specific example. Around 1997 there was a shootout in los angeles and the police didnt even have weaponry. It said, why dont police have the right type of weapons . Lets arm them with the right type of womens. Then that came. Now 2014 you say, wait a minute, they have too many weapons. What are they doing . Maybe its a fine balance between the two but i can tell you from being a former commander of special operations that if it comes numerous occasions where you need to protect your officers because i dont want an officer seriously injured or, you know, something worse when i have equipment at my hands to actually save him. Its not a matter of what we have, but how do you deploy it. How do you deploy the resources properly . Thats a policy question. The factual question has overhung the entire issue here, which is what happened between wilson and mike brown, and in some sense well never know factually. The body camera comes out, if you had a video, you would know a lot more. You look at the data on this and the most interesting thing is, its not cops versus citizens. You see over 1,000 Police Departments already do use body cameras. And in you get a 60 drop in use of force. Thats good for citizens. Also an even larger 88 drop in citizen complaints which officers have said means the cameras basically disincentivize false or frivolous complaints. Yes and no. I think its hard to look just at the numbers and make sense at the numbers because as were seeing now in ferguson, sometimes the one event were focusing on that colors our opinions and how we feel about policing. So, when youre saying 60 drop in complaints or 88 drop in interactio interactions, false complaints, you still have 18 or 14 , depending on which number youre looking, that people will be unhappy. So, no matter how Much Technology youre going to use well, arguing thats a step forward. Its a step forward but its not necessarily the panacea, so to speak. In 1960s a scholar by the name of berkeley said policing is hard on democracy. Its hard to see what police are doing in a Democratic Society using force. And 40, 50 years later im saying its not just that policing is hard on policing. I think democracy is hard to policing. Thats fair to say policing is hard on democracy. Also its hard for human beings to be in charge of policing. Others say just the act of policing makes you colder to other human beings because you constantly see women at their worst moments of the life. People say the core problem here is implicit bias, how cops black and white have negative opinions of black people in black communities. How do Police Officers, black and white, change their relationship to black communities which so much of the problem is subconscious bias against people in these communities . You said a mouthful there. That takes so many variables involved in that. Just the basic understanding of each others culture will help us maintain proper relationships in the future. I dont think implicit bias happens across the spectrum to everyone. It just depends upon the degree the culture you come from to how it will impact your policing type. Most departments need to offer up better sensitive training, diversity training and officers who suffer from the psychological factors of stress every single day by policing some of the neighborhoods and most of the encounters are negative by their very nature. If you get caught up in that, vicious cycle of necktivety and you dont find yourself reaching out, getting counseling, talking to people, youll find your type of policing will not be beneficial to the Police Department and the citizens you serve. Yeah. Doctor, what does an ideal situation then look like . When we talk about community policing, when you look across the nation, is there a city, a place, you can point to and say, theyre getting the right balance. Thats the place we should try to emulate. Some places theyre getting the right balance, but the balance is based on what i refer to as the pentagon of ethical policing, police leadership. Its about who do you recruit . Who who do you select. How do you train them, how do you supervise them and discipline them. One of the departments ive been doing research at is charlotte, north carolina. Not that theyre without problems because you cannot find a Department Without problems. But they are a department that is looking at five prongs in a very serious way. So relying, again, addressing one issue, like the body camera, like retraining Police Officers in sensitivity, its not enough. Because if you have the wrong people recruited to the organization, no matter how many cameras, no matter how much training, you wont achieve what you want to achieve. Its a complex and interrated problem that needs to be addressed from the angles. Allocating resources and millions of dollars to purchasing cameras is really not going to solve anything. And we know for many, many problems what the problem is. Not just communities of color but communities of the have not, so to speak. Whether its from the economic standpoint or another standpoint that creates an environment in which people are perceived as sort less valuable and less important to the society for whatever reason. And this is an issue we know about for decades. Not going to be solved with additional cameras or additional training. I want to ask malik if you agree with that. Seems like plenty of money is spent on the guns, on the jails. Weve covered all of that. Im a little surprised theres much resistance to spending a comparatively small sum on cameras so we know whats going down. I think the cameras are beneficial. It wont solve all of our problems but it will solve some of them. Studies have shown, testing areas for many Police Departments, that complaints have went down. And all were looking for is a slight hesitation on some actions or to know that youre being videotaped or youre videotaping your own incident or event. That means if a Police Officer has one more second to think, then he can do some things right. I think cameras have been beneficial. I think they will be beneficial. Now, do i think theyll solve all of the problems . Not in the context. But in the studies and textst testing areas they have worked and officers coming on now, carrying them around, they wont leave a division, a precinct without them because its helping that much when they viewed tz a negative experience before. Theyre viewing it as a positive experience. So, we need those type of things and this new technological age. We need takesers. We need less than lethal weapons. We need those things that can help protect us and help protect us from complaints. If officer wilson may have had a camera, this circumstance may have been different and you wouldnt be talking to me now. Certainly seems like at least one step in the right direction. Thank you both so much. Really appreciate it. Up next, boehner talks shutdown. Dems talk damage control. And jeb is talking 2016. Art feinman is here for a politics roundup. And then an nbc exclusive ray rice interview. Why he told our own matt lauer he deserves a Second Chance. And later the real life inspiration behind Reese Witherspoons challenging new role, best selling author is right here at the cycle rolls on, tuesday, december 2nd. [ breathing deeply ] [ inhales deeply ] [ sighs ] [ inhales ] [ male announcer ] at cvs health, we took a deep breath. [ inhales, exhales ] [ male announcer ] and made the decision to quit selling cigarettes in our cvs pharmacies. Now we invite smokers to quit, too, with our comprehensive program. We just want to help everyone, everywhere, breathe a little easier. Introducing cvs health. Because health is everything. Introducing cvs health. Americans drink 48 billion thats enough plastic bottles to stretch around the earth 230 times. Each brita filter can replace 300 of those. Clean. Clear. Brita water. Nothing is better. It earns you cash back now and cash back later. With 1 when you buy and 1 as you pay with two ways to earn on puchases, it makes a lot of other cards seem onesided. With a Favorite Book is nice. But i think women would rather curl up with their favorite man. But heres the thing about half of men over 40 have some degree of erectile dysfunction. Well, viagra helps guys with ed get and keep an erection. And remember, you only take it when you need it. Ask your doctor if your heart is healthy enough for sex. Do not take viagra if you take nitrates for chest pain; it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. Side effects include headache, flushing, upset stomach and abnormal vision. To avoid longterm injury, seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than four hours. Stop taking viagra and call your doctor right away if you experience a sudden decrease or loss in vision or hearing. Ask your doctor about viagra. Youre not doing anything hand, as fast as you used to. Do you need help . What is that . Swiffer dusters. I can extend it so i dont have to get on the step stool. Its like a dirt magnet just like my kids. I think swiffer definitely this election, they won it but it wasnt a validation of their proposals. It was a rejection of some of the things that havent been happening in washington with the democrats and the president taking the greater brunt of the blame. We have to start getting some things done here. The repudiation of the democrats is one widespread reading of what happened in the election, but according to a new poll, postrepudiation republicans have no mandate and an abundance of power and no clear sense of how they should use that power. Do they want to to govern or obstruct or do they to want do a mixture of both . Lets ask john boehner. Frankly, we have limited options and limited abilities to deal with it directly. But thats why were continuing to talk to our members. We have not made decisions about how were going to proceed, but we are, in fact, going to proceed. Is the shutdown off the table, sir . Is it off the table . So its on the table . Glad we made that clear. Mitch mcconnell again promised no more shutdowns but he didnt have much to tail about how hes planning to curtail a caucus, which made the president very popular suddenly with hispanics. A new gallup poll shows president obamas Approval Rating up ten points to 68 among latinos. Thats like big, bearloving hugs. I love that intro. Major howard. Reach out to you right now. I feel, i feel, i feel the reach out. I see republicans fight immigration and other things by proposing legislation which they know will not get through the senate. Using the legislative process as a way of burnishing a future campaign rather than looking to actually govern. Either burnishing it or destroying it. As that number for hispanic support for the president shows, theres a big risk for republicans in this. I thought it was very interesting that john boehner said that he would consult with his own members about what to do next. Because thats what this is all about. Its about internal republican politics, not about reaching a deal with the democrats. Dont forget as speaker, john boehner declined time after time after time to bring up for a vote the senatepassed bill on immigration reform, which is sweeping and which not everybody likes. Theres something for everyone to dislike. If he really wanted to do something, he would at least bring that up for a vote. But he refuses to do that because he knows it might pass. So, what theyre doing instead is trying to balance whats left of the establishment ring of the Republican Party, which is symbolized by boehner and mcconnell, and what i call the cruz control faction, which is thats a play on word, thats what that is. Nothing plays on words. Lets bring the whole thing down because we have an unconstitutional president. Thats whats going on right now. Lets take the other side of the aisle, democrats through their own version of autopsy, post midterm losses. Charlie cook is writing that one of the things highlighted by their loss, what charlie cook says is there are many reasons for this decline in support for democrats among certain groups. An argument can be made because democrats have subordinated their traditional focus on helping lower and working class americans move up the economic ladder in favor of other noble priorities such as health care, the environment and civil rights. Now, personally i think you could do all of those things but i agree with charlie cook here that democrats havent done enough to focus on the economic side of their argument. Its interesting. I think in the visual you just showed there, you have senator Chuck Schumer in the background. Senator schumer himself, a staunch democrat, gave a speech the other day basically wondering out loud if it was time to extend medicare and other things under obamacare. He said, did democrats kind of waste their ammunition on obamacare as opposed to middle class you know, things that are more definably middle class and jobs oriented. I think this is cultural to some extent. If you look at the recent history of the Democratic Party, bill clinton is the guy who figured out a way to lure some working class whites back into the Democratic Coalition in two terms as president. President obama has a slightly different mix that hes used. Hes used dramatic, and i mean dramatic turnout among minorities, africanamericans and hispanics to make up for the fact that hes lost some white middle class voters there. The fact is that a lot of the kinds of jobs those voters had, those white middle class voters had, were under pressure if they havent disappeared all together. And i think thats a focus the president has tried to talk about through green jobs and some energy development, so on. He doesnt quite get the music of that and he never really has. Interesting. Lets talk about the Republican Party and, howard, potentially another bush presidency. Ive been skeptical of jeb running up until yesterday when he spoke to a group of ceos. Made it pretty clear that hes thinking very, very seriously about a run. He laid out a strategy not necessarily for himself but the right strategy for republican if they want to win the general election. Heres what he said. He said, i dont know if id be a good candidate or a bad one, but i kind of know how a republican can win. Whether its me or someone else, a winning candidate has to be much more uplifting, much more positive, much more willing to be practical. The candidate should also be willing to lose the primary to win the general without violating your principles, a strategy, hourtd, i agree with and one i know some people, about three years ago, tried to do. Question to you, has the party evolved enough . Has enough time passed for this strategy to be effective . I was there covering the campaign of the unmentioned candidate youre talking about, that is your dad. Now hes mentioned. It didnt work in iowa. I mean, it didnt work then. The question is whether the republicans mood has changed at the grassroots. I have to tell you n places like what washgs new hampshire, South Carolina and elsewhere, the fire and the energy is not in that direction. Theres a tremendous amount of anger and dissatisfaction and fear in a place like iowa. You Start Talking about accommodation on immigration and the republican caucuses and youll get blown out. I think what jeb bush is saying here, you know, hes setting up a scenario whereby if he either doesnt enter in some of those primaries or lose in those primaries, hell call it a badge of courage and endorsement and a reverse endorsement. I think thats prespin by jeb bush to explain why hes not going to do well in these early primary caucuses. Ive thought for a long time he was going to run. Hes been below radar for years doing all kinds of political favors and fundraisers without getting any attention. He couldnt have had any other reason but to keep his options open for running. And i think hes close. We also to want get your views on nonpolitics but some important changes over in the administration potentially with Andrea Mitchell reporting that one of the names we keep hearing about, Ashton Carter, as potential replacement to chuck hagel. Your thoughts on that idea. Ashton carter is the ultimate inside, brilliant defense player and analyst. Hes as much inside the pentagon as chuck hagel really was, ironically, even though he had been a soldier in world war ii, outside the pentagon. Ashton carter is a rhodes scholar, a physicist. His expertise was Missile Defense and so forth, but hes long ago learned the inside game at the pentagon its worthy to be nominated. This could cement the control of white house insiders like the chief of staff and susan rice and others, they would be fully in control of the pentagon in a way that they didnt think chuck hagel had the chops to carry out. Did he used to be married to demi moore . No, sorry. Different guy. Entirely different guy. And when you when you google him, you still get ashton kaert, but you get Ashton Kutcher first. If this is announced, Ashton Carter will race to the top. Have we mentioned we love having howard on the show . Once or twice. Thank you, howard. Up next, is it time to forgive ray rice and move on . He was hard to tackle on the field, but well tackle that question next. In a race, its about getting to the finish line. In life, its how you get there that matters most. Like when i found out i had a