Wait a few minutes and hear harvard lawyer professor Laurence Tribe talk about the arguments weve already heard in the case that the president lost and in the case that the president is probably going to lose tomorrow. I mean, yeah, its its so interesting to me that the lawsuits were almost twins. Were almost filed like carbon copies of each other but theres different laws theres different lawyers arguing the two lawsuits. Obviously, there are two different jurisdictions and what does it mean, what does the pressure got to be for the president s lawyers who are going to be arguing this thing in federal Court Tomorrow seeing the way the same argument was just destroyed, lit on fire, and stomped on by that federal judge in d. C. Just yesterday . I mean, the pressure. Yeah, well at least they kind of know what the judge is going to say to them. Yes. Since theyve already seen the transcript of the previous proceedings. Yeah. This is probably going to mirror it in many ways. Yeah. I mean, its going to be its going it be fascinating to see. This vale is really, what we kn in the document production Deutsche Bank prepared before it was blocked by this lawsuit. Its its the stuff that the president least wants out in in the world. Well, were lucky enough to have professor tribe with us tonight. Great. Perfect night for this. Looking forward o it. Thanks, lawrence. President ial candidate Julian Castro will join us at the end of the hour tonight. Not because hes a president ial candidate, actually because hes a former secretary of housing and urban development. Thats important today because it was housing and urban Development Secretarys turn today in the Trump Administration to show us just how incompetent the trump cabinet is, and ben carson did that in a hearing today where he was questioned by congresswoman katie porter who will also be joining us in this hour. We will get former secretary Julian Castros reaction to ben carsons surprising, to put it mildly, testimony today. And well get Julian Castros reaction to the reported death of a 16yearold boy who was being held in custody by the Trump Administration at the southern border. But first tonight, the subpoena battle continued today between the president and the house Judiciary Committee. Committee chairman jerry nadler issued two more subpoenas at the end of the day to former Trump White House staff, hope hix and annie donalson, annie donalson is a key player, former Deputy White House counsel and chief of staff who white House Counsel don mcgahn who this morning refused to show up for his hearing at the house Judiciary Committee. De orders from the president claiming that the white house staff former white house staff are all immune from congressional subpoenas. In a brief meeting of the Judiciary Committee this morning with the witness chair empty, chairman nadler said this. Let me be clear. This committee will hear mr. Mcgahns testimony efven if we have to go to court to secure it. We will not allow the president to prevent the American People from hearing from this witness. We will not allow the president to block congressional subpoenas, putting himself and his allies above the law. We will not allow the president to stop this investigation and nothing in these unjustified and unjustifiable legal attacks will stop us from pressing forward with our work on behalf of the American People. We will hold this president accountable one way or the other. The committees subpoena also includes a subpoena for Annie Donaldsons notes. Page 86 of volume 2 of the Mueller Report tells us why the committee wants to hear from Annie Donaldson and to see her notes. The report describes the scene on a saturday in june of 2017 after President Trump twice called don mcgahn to order him to fire special counsel robert mueller. Mcgahn recalled feeling trapped because he did not plan to follow the president s directives but did not know what he would say the next time the president called. Mcgahn decided he had to resign. He called his personal lawyer and then called his chief of staff Annie Donaldson to inform her of his decision. He then drove to the office to pack his belongings and submit his resignation letter. Donaldson recalled that mcgahn told her the president had called and demanded he contact the department of justice and that the president wanted him to do something that mcgahn did not want to do. Mcgahn told donaldson the president had called at least twice and in one of the calls asked, have you done it . Mcgahn did not tell donaldson the specifics of the president s request because he was consciously trying not to involve her in the investigation but donaldson inferred that the president s directive was related to the russia investigation. Donaldson prepared to resign along with mcgahn. As the president continues to take unprecedented legal steps to try to block testimony to the house Judiciary Committee, according to one member of the committee, most of the democrats on the house Judiciary Committee now are ready to move to impeachment even if their leadership is not. The Judiciary Committee as a whole is for at least an inquiry of impeachment. Its been discussed by several members and i dont think any member there might have been two members that were particularly close to Speaker Pelosi that kind of were not on board, but most, id say, 80 , 90 of the committees on board to go forward. Politico reports representatives david cicil lirline , janine raskin, pushed to begin impeachment proceedings during a Leadership Meeting of pelosis office. Hakeem jeffries of new york, and Sherry Bustos of illinois. Some of her key allies rejected their calls saying democra democratsmessage is being drowned out by the fight over possibly impeaching trump. Two more democratic members of the house Judiciary Committee endorsed impeachment proceedings today. The Judiciary Committee vice chair mary guyscanlon said in a statement the president s refusal to produce evidence or permit witness testimony defies not only the rule of law but the basic protections of our constitution. No one is above the rule of law. The time has come to start an impeachment inquiry because the American People defserve to kno the truth and to have the opportunity to judge the gravity of the evidence and charges leveled against the president. Judiciary Committee Member jamie raskin told the Washington Post i think overwhelming evidence has been presented to us in the Mueller Report and outside of it, too, of high crimes and misdemeanors and should launch an impeachment inquiries. Other house members not on the Judiciary Committee are now publicly breaking with the democrat leadership on impeachment. I believe we have come to the time of impeachment. Think that at a certain point, this sfo no longer about politics but upholding the rule of law. Its become all the more difficult for the democratic leadership to contain the momentum for impeachment after republican congressman justin amash in a dramatic series of tweets over the weekend came out in favor of impeachment. Saying in one of those tweets, muellers report reveals that President Trump engaged in specific actions and a pattern of behavior that meet the threshold for impeachment. Leading off our discussion tonight is democratic congressman Eric Swalwell of california. He is a member of the house you di Judiciary Committee and House Intelligence Committee and also a democratic candidate for president. Congressman swalwell, your reaction today to don mcgahn not showing up at the Judiciary Committee, committee issuing more subpoenas while the president continues to fight subpoe subpoenas. Good evening, laurnlwrence. I think its time empty witness chair s result in empty witness pockets and should find the lawless individuals every single day until they show up. I think immediately we should move to impeach attorney general barr and move to impeach secretary mnuchin. Theyre front door obstructers to the information we need to hold the president accountabacc. Ive certainly not taken off the table impeaching the president. But those two immediately should be impeached so that we can get the information we need. What do you see happening within the democrats and the house of representatives . We see more and more members coming out and calling for direct going directly to impeachment now in the house Judiciary Committee. That was something that virtually no one was doing just a few weeks ago. You know, were frustrated. Pissed off, frankly, because the rule of law in this country is the main ingredient that holds our democracy together. Its like the flower. It allows free ideas, free markets, freedom to dream, for every person and this president not only defies it, he just puts his middle finger up to it and ill tell you, lawrence, no one can question, you know, where ive stood against this president since the day the russians attacked us and the work i did to help us get the majority over two years and electing new members of congress. Ive tried to show restraint. Ive tried to say, well, lets get the witnesses in. Lets get the full Mueller Report. Lets subpoena these documents and not just jump right to impeachment, but this president , hes given us almost no other option than impeaching him and i think thats a road were going down and its a frustration that my colleagues and i have. You know, i think we saw in the president ial campaign that donald trump relies on tradition. In other words, he relies on other people observing traditions. Hes re l he relied on the news media and press to behave a certain way. He relied on tv interviewers to behave a certain way with president ial candidates and he ste steamrolled right across all of those traditions in ways that benefited himself. He seems to be relying on the restraint that you just proudly talked about, demonstrating yourself, he seemed to be relying on congress restraint when it comes to matters of moving to impeachment and his reliance on that means that he probably believes that he can drag out this process so that there can never be impeachment. Thats absolutely right. What he does is he brands first and then has everyone catch up because we would have said, you know, years ago when attorney general barr said, no collusion, no obstruction, we would have said, well, he better be right if the Mueller Report shows otherwise. And then we all realized, wait, no, this is just the new trump era where you brand it first and have everyone else catch up. I still believe in the rule of law. I believe that when we turned out in 2018, we defied that trump concept of just being lawless and the rule of law worked. We took the majority. I think ultimately, thats where were going to end up is an impeached donald trump. Im going to follow the rule of law to get there. What i fear, though, lawrence, i want to tell you, the effect of this is not just a lawless administration. When you look at whats happening in alabama, in georgia, and missouri, with womens rights, its not just because they know they may have a court that protects them, they see an administration that doesnt respect the law anymore so they figure, what the hell, why dont we just pass a ban on abortion because laws dont matter in this country . So youre seeing this land of lawlessness that this president is leading. Congressman Eric Swalwell, thank you very much for leading us off tonight. My pleasure. Really appreciate it. Joining our discussion, john heilemann, National Affairs analyst for nbc news and msnbc. Cohost and executive producer of show times the circus. With us, nira tanden. Weve been watching and wondering how long the democratic leaderships grip can hold the Party Together in the house all singing the same tune on impeachment. Thats over. That has completely collapsed. Now the Washington Post reporting that at the very top, it seems to have collapsed. This is a report about steny hoyer. Theyre quoting steny hoyer tonight saying, we are confronting what might be the largest, broadest coverup in american history, majority leader steny hoyer told reporters. If a house inquiry leads toe in impeachment, the maryland democrat said, so be it. We can say at this hour a little bit after 10 00 Eastern Daylight Time on this day that the president s going to get impeached, i think now. And theres obviously a large question of what happens after that happens in the senate, but i think we now know that democratic resistance has crumbled and saw it happen with astonishing speed. You rightly pointed out justin amash is going to prove when the history of this is written to have been the trigger, the catalyst. People looked at him and said, you know, its not hes only one republican, hes an outlier, he doesnt matter. He mattered a lot and he mattered a very specific way. He mattered in that he crystalized the question that arose yesterday about 24 hours ago when it became this guy has gone further than the speaker of the house. This guy has gone further than the house leadership. How can a republican be more unequivocal and more clear eyed about the need to impeach donald trump than the whole of the democratic leadership . Once it was formulated that way, Nancy Pelosis position, steny hoyers position, any democrat who is dragging their feet, thats what they were doing, they were dragging their feet because they were afraid of the political risks of going after him with impeachment. All of them started to look foolish and became impossible for Alexandria Ocasio Cortez to maintain a position to the right of justin amash. She was catching up to justin amash today. You know most likely she wanted to be there long before. Of course. Of course. She didnt quantity do defy her leader. Once that republican had taken that position, it became politically untenable for someone as powerful as she has become as representative of the progressive wing of the Democratic Party as she, it was not a tenable position for her to continue to be with nancy pelosi and once she shifted, given the power that she has undoubtedly in terms of social media, in terms of the base of the party, as powerful a democrat as that is in the house of representatives right now, once she shifted, it was a sign of a broader shift and could see pelosis position crumbling in her hands over the course of the last 24 hours. Its now gone. Nera t naranden, where are w . Disagree slightly with john. The really is whether they will start an impeachment inquiry. I actually listened to Eric Swalwell and others who say i do think theres a big interest in moving to an impeachment inquiry because theres an understanding or belief that that will make the arguments to get the materials quicker. Whats really frustrating everyone, every single democrat, is that democrats won in november to be a check and balance on donald trump. We had a Mueller Report that actually found obstruction of justice. It lays out a pretty compelling case for obstruction of justice and what is Donald Trumps response . To obstruct the investigation so that there will be no further airing of his obstruction of justice. I think that is incredibly frustrating to moderates, liberals, and very liberal members of the house. So i think the question in front of nancy pelosi and she will actually be at the cap ideas conference, ill happen to be interviewing her tomorrow. What time, neera . What time . We got to be taking notes. Its might be around 1 00. Okay. After she meets after infrastructure, the infrastructure meeting at the white house. I think the central question is an impeachment inquiry at this time, what is the argument against an impeachment inquiry . Right. Because, look, i do think they should hear from mueller. I do think they should hear from don mcgahn and all the witnesses to make a decision because i think the evidence the shes right that you can build political will for impeachment if we have a full hearing process that seems fair to the American People. But, john, the justin amash tweets say there is enough information in the Mueller Report right now, tonight, to go to impeachment from that report. You dont need any more to go to impeachment. Neera by the way, by impeachment he means impeachment hearings, all the people neera just mentioned would testify. I dont think neera and i dits disagree. Once youve taken the step to start an impeachment proceeding, what democrat doesnt believe donald trump has obstructed justice . Neera believes donald trump obstructed justice. She just said it. I agree. I think he obstructed justice. If donald trump has obstructed justice and the Mueller Report has l