That and whether he can help prove it, thats an open question. We also know on the day that donald trump junior formally accepted that meeting, candidate trump touted the big upcoming speech about hillary clinton. I am going to give a major speech on probably monday of next week, and were going to be discussing all the things that have taken place with the clintons. I think you will find it very informative and very, very interesting. Candidate trump did not make that monday speech. As trump now repeats his denials about any advance knowledge of the meeting, it is critical to note this is a meeting that team trump already lied about. His own lawyers often admitting to mueller trump dictated that misleading statement about the meeting originally. First they lied about what happened in the meeting. Then they lied about the defense of the meeting. Which he was choosing to offer,
even though he also claimed he didnt know anything about the meeting. Now the question is whether trump lied about the worst possible thing. Not what was discussed in it, not the pr afterward, but whether he took actions or had intent the meeting that could contribute to elements of a crime. Thats not a question posed by, say, a trump critic or an investigator aggressively looking at the issues, or posed by journalists in the story. This is now the key question, facing the white house, courtesy of one of trumps longest serving once more loyal aides. A man who was with him as political staff, a man who documented and recorded interactions and that may be why these new reports say that this once loyal team, these two teammates, are now dead to each other, preparing to bury cohen, is what the white house is leaking. Michael cohen used to be a loyal trump friend who gave privileged advice. But cohen is learning, trumps
return on that loyalty all depends on the situation. And trump currently isnt taking cohens counsel anymore. It is a standoff captured by some words of wisdom from a song, jukebox joints that says, it all depends with friends like you, who needs friends . Sometimes best advice is no advice. Especially when its your advice. I turn now to former federal prosecutor joyce vance who has much experience here. I dont think theres any doubt that donald trump is not taking Michael Cohens advice and counsel anymore. How do you view the significance of this arent you are and the types of leaking and back biting that were seeing . This is potentially very significant. You know, prosecutors are hard wired to be cautious. So it is important to say that we havent heard this story in cohens own words yet. That will matter. It will matter if he has any
evidence, Text Messages or emails that were sent contemporaneous reply back him up. So far the evidence weve heard is that there is no evidence of that nature. But this is really a bombshell. This idea that the president knew about this meeting before it happened, and signed off on it, places him squarely inside of collusion with russia. When this kind of information goes public, obviously prosecutors would rather they held it and no one else knew. How do you interpret that . It is interesting. We dont know the source of these leaks and frankly they dont make essential for mueller. Certainly the leaks dont come from there. They dont make an awful lot of sense for cohen to be the leaker. It doesnt make it impossible for him to cooperate with the Southern District of new york, prosecutors dont like to have their cases being carried out in the media. It also doesnt make a lot of sense for the president to put this forward unless he knew this
was coming inevitably and they believed it was so damaging that they had to somehow try to get ahead of the story. Based on the idea that theres other people in the room, which was in the original cnn report, what do you make of the possibility that some or even all those people have already told this information to special counsel, or is there potentially an effort to get peoples stories straight by talking about it in public . I think thats exactly the right question. We know, for instance, that mueller has already talked to hope hicks who would have likely be in the room. Trump jr. Has already testified up on the hill. So theres been a lot of opportunity for folks under oath to either tell truth and perhaps already be unbenoenlsed to us cooperating, or to have lied and subjected themselves to criminal charges which could possibly be used against them now to get them on finally reveal the truthful. A lot of this looks very bad
for donald trump. The videos weve played might have had other interpretations, now look more and more incriminating. I wonder what you make of it, that there was no speech given. If he didnt get goods to get speech, then was there not the finishing of the act . What do you think of that defense . You know, at this point, we can speculate. A lot of Different Directions about what happen. The reality is we dont know what happened in this meeting. We do know what it wasnt. It wasnt a meeting that was exclusively about adoption. Was it a successful meeting where the russians came in and offered something . We dont know that. Was it a meeting where the russians didnt make a full offer and it ended on
unfortunate terms . We dont know that either. One of the strong possibilities here is that there was a conversation about some form of future collaboration, and then we hear this incredibly awkward conversation where he says, russia, if youre listening, heres the favor you can do for me. Come in and deliver hillarys email. At the time it felt strange and awkward. Now with everything weve learned in the past few days, perhaps thats the truth of what went on in that meeting in trump tower. That there was a conversation about some form of future cooperation with the campaign and that it came to pass that evening. Just to be clear, youre saying that theres multiple cover stories. Number one would be adoptions. Number two would be, oh, this Dossier Type Material on clinton that was not ghi or usable for the speech, but number three, the real action, would be, hey, we can do things cyber if you
flip the switch and he wont to flip the switch in public. And the problem is because there have been serial mistruths told about what happened in this meeting, we know it has to have been something significant. Something that people want to cover up but we dont know exactly what it is. We do know what it isnt. Fascinating when you put it like that. Joyce vance, we always learn a lot from you. Thank you for joining us tonight. Thanks. Nbc News National reporter ken delanian is reporting. His story headlining, the Trump Administration has no central strategy for Election Security and no one is in charge. Ken, thank you for joining me tonight will. Great to see you. Your story digs in deeper than just what is blatant odd about this meeting and its brevity. Walk us through what former and current officials are telling
you. Yeah. This is not some great scoop. This is simply talking to folks and listening to Cabinet Officials talk many public about their efforts to combat foreign election interference. What they say, the Department Homeland security secretary with our own Peter Alexander in aspen talked about the things dhs is doing, working with the states on Election Security. Then she said, thats not enough. We really need the whole of government strategy. What she didnt say there isnt one. Thats what everybody you talk on has said. I was flabbergasted when they said there has been such a strategy when the white house took office. I havent found anyone who has seen the strategy but ive talked to a lot of people who said no such strategy exists. The fbi is doing things. Theyve created a Foreign Influence Task force. They are trying to focus this problem of the russians and others interfering in our
politics. The russians on on social media as we speak manipulating it. The National Security agency has said theyre stepping up their efforts in cyberspace. Most of that is secret. What we dont have is anything that knits it together. We have no leadership from the oval office and this really requires it. There are some really hard problems. Like the russians playing on twitter and facebook. Those are private companies. First amendment issues at may. There may have been some changes in law or policy issues. When you dont have the executive Branch Leadership on this, you really lose the power of the full federal government. You have different agencies trying to do what they can. And dont forget, some of these officials testified to congress including chris wray, the fbi director, that they had never been asked by the president to tackle election issues. So it is hard to say what they mean when they say theyve had a strategy from day one. And there are all these different states involved. We have a system to decentralize. There was a proposal in the house to put 380 million into State Efforts to combat this. That was defeated by republicans this. How much does this effort also require upgrading what states can handle in the Mueller Investigation has revealed, how these countrybacked efforts are going after individual states that may not have the cyber knowhow . Yeah. Every State Official you talk on says they need more money, they need upgraded technology, more resources. I think that while the sort of vulnerabilities of State Election Systems are troubling, when you think of the three ways the russians attacked election, they can hack into, they attempted to breach 21 states and they got into seven. That may have been the least effective method that they used. The most effective was they thakd democratic national
committee. They stole the emails and released them. Then the second most effective was their manipulation of social media. It is hard to measure their influence. They are everyday playing on social media. There is a webb called hamilton 68 that measures some of on it twitter and theyre trying to divide americans on race, on guns, all sorts of issues. And dan coats, the director of national intelligence, gave a speech the other day and he said this is happening. Theyre interfering in our politics. What he didnt say is there is nothing that were doing about it. We, the u. S. Government, has not deterred this behavior at all. And the attempted hack of Claire Mccaskill as well. A huge story. When we look at the footage that looks different over time. Were bonl 100 days out from
these midterms. Thank you for being here. Its been a big news day. What happens when you are less than truthful when you talk to the u. S. Congress . Someone quite close to this president may be about to find out. More in a in a minute. Stay with us. vo what if this didnt have to happen . I didnt see it. vo what if we could go back . What if our car. Could stop itself . In iihs frontend crash prevention testing, nobody beats the subaru impreza. Not toyota. Not honda. Not ford. The subaru impreza. More than a car, its a subaru. To me, hes, phil micwell, dad. O golfer. So when his joint pain from Psoriatic Arthritis got really bad, it scared me. And what could that pain mean . Joint pain could mean joint damage. Enbrel helps relieve joint pain, helps stop irreversible joint damage, and helps skin get clearer. Enbrel may lower your ability to fight infections. Serious, sometimes fatal events including infections, tuberculosis, lymphoma, other cancers, Nervous System and Blood Disorders, and allergic reactions have occurred. Tell your doctor if youve been someplace where fungal infections are common, or if youre prone to infections, have cuts or sores, have had hepatitis b, have been treated for Heart Failure, or if you have persistent fever, bruising, bleeding, or paleness. Dont start enbrel if you have an infection like the flu. Since enbrel, dads back to being dad. Visit enbrel. Com and use the joint Damage Simulator to see how your joint damage could be progressing. Ask about enbrel. Enbrel. Fda approved for over 15 years. Its revolutionary Texture Unlocks 75 unprecedented colors, each with exquisite depth and richness. Its a difference you can see, touch, and feel. Thats proudly particular. Century. Only at select local paint and hardware stores. Are you ready to take your then you need xfinity xfi. . A more powerful way to stay connected. It gives you super fast speeds for all your devices, provides the most Wifi Coverage for your home, and lets you control your network with the xfi app. Its the ultimate wifi experience. Xfinity xfi, simple, easy, awesome. And a witness passing each other at random. Today muellers office which is notoriously tight lipped. They rarely respond to any question on the record. They put out this statement confirming that yes, that is him, waiting to board a flight. If it is accurate that the other person in the photo was donald trump jr. , mr. Mueller was not aware of him and had no interaction with him. Which is a bit like a reporter asked mariah carey about j. Lo an and, and said i dont know her. He is very aware right now of trump jr. s role in this Trump Tower Meeting weve been covering. Which Michael Cohen is now ready to say is a thing that trump jr. Lied about. How his dad approved it. Now that story first broke on cnn. And nbc confirming with it a source and saying that he knew about the officials that sought a meeting with official. They are saying that trump knew and cohen said he will tell mueller if he can. Which raises the question serena is talking about it. I touched on it briefly. Why not tell mueller about it privately . Why leak it across the airwaves . No one knows the anxious to that at this moment. He told the committee that he did not alert his father to this meeting ahead of time for his reported comments to the house intelligence meeting many december. If this news about what Michael Cohen is willing to tell mueller is true, then it does obviously call donald trump jr. s testimony into serious doubt. Now, the leading democrats in the senate ju dish Area Committee are saying they want donald trump jr. Back in for questioning. Senator leahy wants to question him in public. That would be different as well
as under oath. The top democrat adam schiff said he wants trump jr. Back. The democrats do not control either of those committees so you can look at those as wishes. Over on the house Intel Committee, republicans have already closed out what they view as their russia probe months ago. Done. So can democrats get any fresh answers from trump jr. Now . Do they get another crack at it . Or is this all a Fan Fiction Showing how they would use their Subpoena Power, how they would run this if something changes in the november midterms. I go to eric swalwell, and other members of the committee met with donald trump jr. For several hours. First, thank you for making time
for us. If it is true that donald trump jr. Told his father about that, did you view that based on what you heard as clear crime that he would commit before the house . Or is it more complicated . More complicated. Clearly a crime. And also, a crime if Michael Cohen himself was not truthful with the house. What ive learned with donald trump, his family, his soninlaw, his lawyers, none of they will have been straight with us about anything weve asked them and they were inoculated by a House Republican investigation that never pressed them to testify under subpoena that never subpoenaed any of the records to see if any of their stories came out the way that they were telling us. How long is that . Youre an investigator here. You just said none of them does that include hope hicks . Other staff . Well, so hope hicks, for
example, when she was pressed, she would refuse to answer questions. Donald trump jr. , when he was asked about conversations with his father about the june 9th, Trump Tower Meeting, he refused to answer and the republicans did not want to subpoena him to compel him. They didnt want to know. It was a take him at his word investigation which we are seeing was so irresponsible. Were learning more and more every day. Im anment o ment on miment onm. If people want to know, this is wrong, there is still an opportunity to come back to congress and reopen this investigation. We can still do it and i think people should tell their representatives on the Intel Committee they expect it. Why do you think the Trump Tower Meeting has proved so problematic for the trump team to get their stories straight . It is not about what donald trump did with that meeting. I think what is significant is what he did not do. If he knew meeting was to take place, he did not his son to cancel the meeting. He did not tell the fbi about the meeting. If anything, he further encouraged and emboldened the russians to hack because he went out about a month and a half after the meeting and said russia, if youre listening work the years from today, you would be rewarded for hacking. It was green lights that he sent by doing nothing or allowing his son to take meeting. We found in our investigation that donald trump and donald trump jr. Talked every day by phone, in person, about the most minute details of the campaign. It is hard to believe that donald trump jr. Would not have told his father about it. It is actually stranger if that is what occurred. So finally, is this the blue print for what would you do with Subpoena Power after the mid
terms . Donald trump jr. And the other staff . And what do you say to people who feel like, that would be two more years of fixating on 2016 election events . Our investigations should a