Rachel Maddow takes a look at the days top political news stories. They are known as the steele dossier. They allege, among other things, that the Trump Campaign had organized collusion with the kremlin. Quote, this is something of huge significance. Way above party politics, that Intelligence Officer told corn, that would be steele. Quote, i think trumps own party should be aware of this stuff, as well. The official confirmation of the fbi investigation into the Trump Campaigns contacts with russia was not confirmed for many more months. Its even easy to forget that, because its the kind of big information thats the center of American Politics, so we all talk about it. People who dont even follow the news know about it. But lets be clear. It was not until march 2017, many months later is, thats after the inauguration, after the election, when fbi director james comey went down to the hill, where he was testifying and said, yes, there was an open probe. By that time, the fbi had also initiated a separate but related investigation and that has now been broken much into public
in russia called the right to bear arms. So you have a putinconnected oligarch attached to a gun rights platform. And that is very odd. Steven hall, the former chief of Russian Operations for the cia explains it thusly. The idea of a private Gun Ownership Is Anathema to putin. So the question is why . Why was a progun campaign being hac hatched by a leader in putins own party . The answer put forward here, that putin was reaching out to attract the nra, specifically over to russia. This is part of what the Justice Department alleges. And again, the case is only beginning, but what they allege was a covert influence operation. Torshin cultivating ties with the nra, all the way back in 2010. He and butina become nra members, which is weird. They begin attending the nra yearly conferences in the u. S. , which are about domestic politics. They meet with top nra officials. They cultivate these friendships. The pictures tell the story. Are more alike than americans and russians. We are hunters, we are shooters, we do the same thing and value the same kind of things and we need to work together. There are no more peoples more alike than americans and russians. I mean, its fine if you want to bring people together with commonality, but thats not usually what you hear from conservative political operatives in america, certainly not back then, 2013. Fast forward to december 2015. The middle of what is, of course, the prepresident ial campaign season. Keene as well as other nra leaders include pete brownwell, and they head back to russia. This is their second visit. They go to russia. Butina facilitating a meeting with a ceo of a private russian gun manufacturer, which produces a sniper rifle identified by the pentagon not for domestic use or hunting, but actually as a threat to american soldiers. The nra leader is treated to a tour of that facility and a chance to shoot some guns on sight. The nra reportedly spent 30 million to Support Trump in
2016. And on the one hand, they do typically support republican nominees. But heres what you need to know. That was triple the amount they spent on behalf of mitt romney just four years prior. And then in january, you get this report in mcclatchy, the fbi investigating whether the fbi used this relationship with the nra to illegally funnel foreign cash into the Gun Rights Organization as part of an effort to Support Trump. So ever Science Maria Butina was arrested and charged with her conspiracy on behalf of russia, the nra has consistently declined to comment to all kinds of sources and all kinds of publications on this association with what is now an indicted russian spy facing those allegations. Now, journalist david corn is raising this question about whether the arrest of butina caused a Leadership Shake up shortly after at the nra. Corn writing that on may 7th, the nra released a curious Press Release, declaring oliver north, who has his own history as a key
vague, anything. But they are declining to comment tonight. Same for brownwell. Corn reports hes not taking calls. Im joined now by the reporter at the center of the action, david corn, Washington Bureau chief for mother jones. David, we always learn a lot from you. I appreciate you joining me this friday night. Thanks for having me on the weekend. Heading into the weekend. You have a lot on this story. As you know, rachel has been on many pieces of this story for quite some time. What has advanced through whats happened with the nra . And let me start with the biggest question. I dont need to save it. Reading between the lines of your reporting, are you saying you have reason to believe there is another indictment coming pursuant to the nra case . Im not saying that. I dont know that and i dont make any predictions on what the Mueller Investigation is going to be or the butina investigation, which is separate. We keep being surprised. And The Big Picture here, ari, is that we keep learning new things. Things that we didnt know a week ago, six months ago. So on all of these investigations involving michael cohen, trump russia, and of course the nra investigation. But it was, as you noted, it was very puzzling when the nra went through this leadership change. I remember getting the Press Release and it was weirdly put. Oliver north is poised to become nra president. Not that hes been chosen nra president , but hes poised to become nra president. And as he put it, it was news to me. And no one could really explain how this very hierarchical organization, that had very strict rules of succession in terms of its leadership would all of a sudden pluck a guy out who didnt see it coming and make him president of the nra when he wasnt prepared to be. And then only recently with the butina case, did we learn about this fbi raid. And remember, her partner, romantically and politically,
was a guy named paul erickson, who was an nra activist. And he had been working with her to infiltrate, penetrate, make connections with people in the nra and other conservative groups. So if she were raided, as she was, one would expect him to know about it and word to start filtering out. Which could have caused a tremendous panic within the nra and might have and might have led to anyone being connected with butina, to be scared, im not sure about an indictment, but to be scared of being caught up certainly exposure. Yes. And Peter Brunell was very much involved, having gone, you know, on trips that butina organized and having been one of the nra highest officials that she had cultivated. When you look at the nra, which has a lot of seasoned
political professionals, people may disagree with their views on gun rights and access to guns, but these are people who have been around washington, made it to the top of one of the most powerful organizations around. How can one benignly or positively explain the complete ignorance that would be required to think that an authoritarian country would have a vibrant, private Gun Rights Movement . You know, theres so much puzzling about this. In the book i did with Michael Isikoff, russian roulette, we wrote about the butina case before it became a criminal case, and we noted that she had shown up at nra events and other conservative events like cpac, the annual gettogether, and was really trying to make friends with some of the leading officials. In fact, one fellow, you know, who said, by his own admission,
hes in his 60s, doesnt have a lot of hair, has a little bit of a paunch, said, im not used to young, attractive women coming up to me and saying, can i be your facebook friend . Can i snapchat with you . And he thought there was something odd and weird that butina and this russian legislator named Aleksandr Torshin kept showing up, and that the nra that he was apart of was embracing this pair of boris and natasha. So there were some people who thought this was odd. But certainly if you watch that video of david keene, if you watch the video that was made of Peter Brunell in 2015, these guys are really having a good time. Theyre getting off making these russian connections so youre saying there was some suspicion about a snapchat honey pot . Yeah. I think i mean, i think some people saw it that way. But its clear at the time and it was clear in the 2016 campaign that whoever was
masterminding this, whether it was torshin or Somebody Else, they had a pretty good insight into American Politics. If you want to work your way into, you know, influencing republicans and conservatives who are now, you know, controlling all arms of government, do it through the nra. And they tried right. What decade Warren Zivon Say . Bring lawyers, guns, and money. Yeah, the you know what has hit the fan. Family show. Family show, david but i give them credit. Youre saying it was done out in the open. Youre getting at the fact that they were quite adept at infiltrating specifically the conservative wing of American Politics in the way they did it. And that gives, of course, insight into what theyre accused of with regard to the Trump Campaign, with j. D. Gordon, a trump adviser who sits at the nexus of guns and trump. Its so much fascinating stuff, the final question i have for you we havent even gotten to,
which is the way you continue to figure in this. Your name and reporting came up in the very controversial debates over the wiretapping of carter page and whether your material was underlying material for that unlawful wiretap. Today we see in the little parts, and i shared this with viewers at the top, the little parts that we do glean from whats come out with steele is the fbi assertion that they stopped working with him, because of what he told you and what you published. Your response, sir . Well, i think we knew that already. We certainly reported that in the book, Michael Isikoff and myself. So its not a surprise. It confirms that. And you know, the point i would make is that when i talked to Christopher Steele in the very end of october, 2016, he was talking to me very reluctantly. He was scared. The material that he had found, connections, allegations between the of interactions between
trump and the russian government frightened him as a veteran counterIntelligence Officer. And he had taken his material to the fbi, had been working with them, but he felt this information needed to get out in some way before the election. That the American Public had to be told this. So, he david, had the fbi publicly confirmed that on the record before . No, not at all. So why now . In fact, they were doing everything do you know why now . Excuse me . Do you know why now . Well, the reason is, the conventional reason, that it was a Counterintelligence Operation that was ongoing and jim comey and others have explained that they dont make that information public, even when members of congress ask. Now, steeles position was that he thought there was enough connections, enough to worry about without knowing the full picture that the fbi should have worked harder, you know, at least the u. S. Government, someone in the u. S. Government, to make more of that available
to the public before they cast votes on november 8th. So thats why he talked to me. When he did that, the fbi said, okay, now too much of your own, you know, of a lone wolf doing this on your own. And we dont want to work with you anymore. But i think he knew that this would get him in trouble with the bureau. He thought it was important that the public knew something about this. Its fascinating and its a story that obviously has gotten deeper and youve been there from the start. I do appreciate your time tonight, sir. Well, always good to be with you. You know that. Thank you, david. We turn now to more news on this potential legal quandary for the president. Im going to be joined in just a moment by the pulitzer prizewinning reporter whos actually tracked Donald TrumpsBusiness Dealings as closely as just about any reporter. Now, looking at those legal questions, this reporter began this day with a scoop of his own about a notable spike in revenue at Donald Trumps new york hotel. After two years of sagging revenue, that hotel suddenly
gets 13 more in the first quarter. The hotels General Manager says the spike was from, quote, a lastminute visit to new york by the crowned prince of saudi arabia. Those hotel stays by the princes entourage was enough to boost revenue for the entire quarter. Its not clear from the Trump Organization or the saudis whether they paid for those rooms. Its unclear whether the president is violating the emoluments clause. Last week, of course, a case got a green light for a lawsuit against the president over this very allegation. Now, after the Washington Post published this story about the spike in revenue, the Attorney General of new york announced her state also probing the same question. Is the president violating this ban . Joining me now is david fahrenthold, political reporter for the Washington Post. Whats most important here . The big picture were seeing here is that we really dont
know, even 18 months into the trump presidency, we dont really know even the basics about what foreign governments are spending money at the president s properties. What foreign governments are actually using trumps businesses to pay donald trump, who then is overseeing u. S. Relationships with those countries. This letter from the gm at the trump hotel in new york indicating this big group of saudis came in and it boosted their revenue for the whole quarter. You know, thats just an indication of whats possibly out there that we dont know about. You obtained this letter, but it was sort of put out by the Trump Business Side themselves. They put themselves on blast. Was that out of you know why they did that . Um, no. This letter was meant for investors in the trump hotel in new york. So the trump hotel is owned the individual hotel rooms are owned by outside investors. And so this letter was meant for them, to sort of reassure them. As we said in the story, it had been a couple of bad years at that hotel. 2016 and 2017, the numbers had gone down. This was the General Manager saying, hey, things are looking
up again. This quarter has been good. And ill explain why. Basically saying, you know, im working for you. Im trying to make the situation better. Heres how we did it this time. Do you think we should infer something negative about the Trump Organizations refusal to provide actual accounting of what theyre donating back . I mean, i dont really know what we can infer from it. The thing you can tell from the way theyve reacted to these questions is that the Trump Organization is a private business. And it has always been a very private business. It had always kept as many details about its operation as it could secret. So even now that donald trump is in the white house, the Trump Organization, which is still owned by him, still seems to see itself in the same light, were a private business, we do what we want, to the degree that there are legal requirements for us to disclose things about our business, well do it. But we wont go beyond that. The idea that there might be some sort of need for transparency Above And Beyond what the law requires, to be sure that the president wasnt sort of conflicted between his Business Interests and the public interests, they dont see
that. They havent responded to that at all. So we only know about his Business Dealings with foreign governments kind of through media reports, through dribs and drabs here and there. Right, and through as often what you have been able to obtain by oldfashioned shoe leather reporting. David fahrenthold with the Washington Post, thank you so much. Thank you. We have a lot more in this show. We will be right back. We do whatever it takes to fight cancer. These are the specialists were proud to call our own. Experts from all over the world, working closely together to deliver truly personalized cancer care. Expert medicine works here. Learn more at cancercenter. Com you wouldnt accept an incomplete job from any one else. Why accept it from your Allergy Pills . Most pills dont finish the job because they dont relieve nasal congestion. Flonase sensimist is different. It relieves all your worst symptoms, including nasal congestion, which most pills dont. Its more complete allergy relief. And all from a gentle mist you can barely feel. Flonase sensimist helps block six key inflammatory substances. Most pills only block one. And six is greater than one. Flonase sensimist. Testified. Sh she is one of Paul Manaforts accountants. And in light of what she has confessed to on the stand, its quite clear why she wanted that Immunity Deal that the judge approved. Remember, yesterdays revelation from what manaforts longtime bookkeeper testifying that he went into some