Transcripts For MSNBCW The Rachel Maddow Show 20190509 : vim

MSNBCW The Rachel Maddow Show May 9, 2019

Trying to get him to do that he doesnt want to do, in order to really figure it out, you got to go back and look at the history of, like, Harriet Myers as white House Counsel or janet reno for bill clinton and the eric holder contempt controversy in the barack obama presidency. I mean, you have to go back to George Washington and the whole idea of executive privilege in the first place. I mean, its it is the exact kind of rabbit hole that i fit perfectly inside. I could live the rest of my life plumbing the depths of this kind of political confrontation, right. If you are a constitution nerd, if you are a civics nerd, confrontations like this, votes like this today, this drama around this in the house today, its like christmas, birthday, first day of school and first day of Summer Vacation all wrapped up into one. Its exciting. Its exciting thing to cover. Its an exciting thing to unfold. There is so much uncertainty in terms of how its going to, you know, proceed through all the various procedural stuff that has to happen and all the precedent and the courts. In this case, though, this confrontation between this Judiciary Committee and this attorney general william barr, and what will soon be a full vote out the house of representatives, Holding Attorney general william barr in contempt, in this case, however fun it may be to get into all the arcane detail of what this contempt fight means, and how it might interact with other historical precedent and how this might legally be in this case, for this fight, it is impossible to make sense of what is going on in this particular fight without seeing it for how it fits into the larger and much, much simpler clash that is happening now in washington and that has eclipsed Everything Else in d. C. Politics. And that is the clash between President Donald Trump and the Mueller Investigation. I mean, for all of the kinetic activity that we can see, for all the different headlines that we are seeing generated every 15 minutes, 24 hours a day, seven days a week right now, that is it. That is the blunt force collision that is happening here. All of this crazy stuff and historic stuff that is happening so rapidly right now, and all these political and legislative and legal fights, it is all about that one simple confrontation. This is trump versus the Mueller Investigation. Thats the whole thing. And i mean, honestly, big picture, its roughly six weeks since mueller turned in his report about the findings of his investigation. At this point, there is still lots of uncertainty as to how and why muellers investigation came to an end when it did and how it did. Since mueller turned in that report, william barr has been publicly suggesting that in his view, mueller had no right to continue his investigation once he notified bill barr and the Justice Department that he didnt intend to declare one way or the other whether President Trump should be charged with crimes. The day after newly appointed attorney general william barr took over control of muellers investigation, the day after he officially took oversight of muellers investigation personally, he and mueller discussed the fact that mueller wasnt going to declare one way or the other if the president should be charged. Barr now says the implication of that to him is that mueller therefore shouldnt have been investigating at all, and less than three weeks from that date, in fact, muellers investigation was suddenly over and his report was turned in. Now, at this point, roughly six weeks out from muellers report being turned in under those circumstances, there is still serious just base level uncertainty as to what actually mueller looked into. There are no signs in muellers report that he carried out a counterintelligence investigation into the potential National Security consequences of russias interference in our election, the potential compromise of people around the president or people involved in his campaign or heading the transition or the administration. I mean, just as a concrete example, that means that while muellers report gives in detail a factual account of how the president and his businesses pursued a huge real estate deal in moscow throughout trumps president ial campaign, a deal for which they would need help from the kremlin and about which they were in repeated contact with kremlin officials during the campaign while the president was publicly lying about it and denying any of that was happening, i mean, those contacts in muellers report are factually described to a t. But in muellers report, there was no assessment whatsoever as to whether or not that dangled real estate deal, that secret negotiation during the campaign, prosecutors said it could have resulted in hundreds of millions of dollars for donald trump and his business, but mueller gives no assessment whatsoever as to whether or not that deal or those negotiations for that deal again conducted in secret during the campaign, mueller makes no assessment as to whether those might have been some sort of effort to compromise trump or otherwise to pursue the russian governments objectives when it came to his president ial campaign. I mean, take the names off it, right . Heres a fosh Foreign Government actively secretly pursuing a huge business deal with a president ial candidate during the president ial campaign while the candidate is lying about it. Mueller is just silent on whether or not that might have any implications for potential compromise of the candidate or for that Foreign Governments intentions toward us at a National Security or intelligence level. And, i mean, on that question theres no not only no assertion by mueller one way or the other as to what that meant, there is no reference to the idea that he even looked into it. Six weeks now after muellers report was submitted, there is still blunt baselevel uncertainty as to whether he looked at any of the president s financial records or tax records as part of any investigation into potential compromise or links either to the russian interference campaign or to other potentially compromising foreign interests. I mean, they dont appear to have looked at any financial entanglement stuff at all. I mean, those are just things off the top of my head, right . Theres all these really big things about muellers inquiry and its scope and its terms and what it looked at and what it didnt that remain wide open. It remains as wide open as questions today as those questions were the day we first heard that his investigation had wrapped up. I mean, youd think that six weeks after we got that report, even some of that base stuff, what did mueller look at, did he look at the money, was any of the russian contact stuff dangerous, i mean, we didnt know any of that the day he turned in his report, six weeks later, we still dont know any of that. And you would sort of think that would be where the National Focus would be, on this investigation and this scandal that has been such an object of focus for the entire time this president has been in office. Hey, what did the investigation actually look into . What did it actually find . What should we know about how it was conducted . Youd think that would be sort of what were talking about, but instead its all the fight, right . Instead, the Trump Administration for the president personally through the actions of the white House Counsels office, through his newly appointed attorney general william barr, through his press spokesperson, what theyve done over these six weeks is erected this incredibly aggressive, multifront effort to try to freeze muellers investigation where it is, to block any further questions about what mueller found and what he did or did not look into. And while it might seem now like there is all these disparate fights breaking out all over washington, all these different types of confrontation that might indicate some, you know, harsh new tone of partisanship between the parties or between the white house and Congressional Democrats or blah, blah, blah, some other beltway milquetoast both sidesist nonsense about how its no nice in washington, youre seeing all these fights that look like separate battles. But they are all the same fight. This is one big fight. This is trump versus the Mueller Investigation. And thats what all of these different battles are about. I mean, don mcgahn, important witness in the Mueller Investigation. He has just been told by the white house to defy a congressional subpoena that ordered him to hand over documents about the things he described to Robert Mueller as a witness in that inquiry. The president also threatening that that witness to the Mueller Investigation don mcgahn will be blocked from testifying to congress about what he told mueller. Judiciary chairman jerry nadler has now threatened overtly that former white House Counsel don mcgahn may also be held in contempt, may also have to face the legal consequences for that if he continues to defy the subpoenas, whether or not it is at the white houses request. Right . Thats about trying to block information about the mueller inquiry from coming to light, through questioning of don mcgahn and the submission of documents from him to a Congressional Committee following up on muellers findings. Today, attorney general william barr, voted by the Judiciary Committee to be in contempt. He will soon be voted by the full house to be in contempt. Its not because they dont like william barr or they object to his recent behavior in some generic sense. This is about trump versus the Mueller Investigation. This contempt vote today is because barr is defying a subpoena that the Justice Department had issued to obtain the material that barr redacted out of muellers report and to obtain the underlying evidence that supports muellers findings. This remarkable assertion today by the white house that they are retroactively seeking as far as theyre concerned the whole Mueller Report should now be seen as covered by executive privilege. I mean, if youre too close to that as a story, you might think oh, thats a whole new fight. Executive privilege declared retroactively over the whole Mueller Report, even after 90 of it has been made public. No, its actually all the same fight, again, to try to block access to muellers findings, to try to give barr some cover for denying Congress Access to the rest of the reports findings and underlying evidence that havent been released, to try to freeze the investigation where barr landed it, with nobody getting to find out anything more about what mueller did or what mueller looked and at nobody getting to ask any followup questions. Its all the same fight. I mean, just go back to that trump tower moscow example for just a second. Right, this week, Michael Cohen went to prison, in part for lying to congress about the extent and the timing of the trump organizations negotiations with the russian government over the potential trump tower to be built in moscow. Michael cohen went to prison for lying to congress about that this week. Today, donald trump jr. Was subpoenaed by the Intelligence Committee in the senate. One source telling Bloomberg News that the reason they sent him a subpoena is because the committee wants donald trump jr. To come back and testify to them again about trump tower moscow, and now donald trump jr. Says, or excuse me, a source close to donald trump jr. Says that hes going to fight that subpoena to come back and testify to senate intelligence. And so, you know, you can add to this list of big confrontations that were having, you can add to that list the president s eldest son now saying he, too, will defy a subpoena to come testify on this issue. But if there was a problem with his testimony on the issue of trump tower moscow, i mean, i think theres an interesting question to be asked about why the committee would be bringing him back in to testify on that matter again. Michael cohen lied about trump tower moscow under oath to the Intelligence Committees. They didnt bring him back in to clear it up. They gave it to the Justice Department, who charged them with a felony for lying to them. Sam patten lied to the senate Intelligence Committee as well. They didnt bring him back in to clarify the matter. They referred him to the Justice Department for prosecution, and ultimately he had to admit in court as part of his plea deal that he committed a felony when he lied in his testimony to the Intelligence Committee. Roger stone is accused by the Justice Department right now of having lied in his congressional testimony about matters related to russian interference in the Trump Campaign. The committee did not bring roger stone back into clarify his testimony. Hes going to trial on that as a felony charge. So, the senate Intelligence Committee is led by richard burr, republican senator from north carolina, he has his own walkon cameo role in the Mueller Report for taking information that he learned about the fbis investigation from a classified gang of eight intelligence briefing on capitol hill, he took that information up to the white house and told the Trump White House what he had learned in that classified briefing. And i know everybody praises richard burr and the senate Intelligence Committee for their lack of rancor and their bipartisan proceedings. But if there was a problem with donald trump jr. s testimony to that committee about trump tower moscow or anything, why is it only the president s son who is getting called back in to readdress the matter, when everybody else who got nailed for lying to congress on that subject and others just got nailed in court for lying to congress in this scandal . Why are they bringing him back in to talk it over again . So the senate Intelligence Committee proceeded with that subpoena today for the president s eldest son. A source close to him says he will fight it. We will see what happens there. Meanwhile, the Intelligence Committee in the house today issued their own subpoena to obtain muellers fully unredacted report and its underlying evidence. They issued that subpoena under a provision of federal law that we actually discussed here last night on this show with noted First Amendment attorney ted boutros. I mean, youve got all these different kinetic actions, all these different confrontations, all these fights, the attorney general defying the yJudiciary Committee committee, the white house asserting executive privilege, the Judiciary Committee finding barr in contempt of congress. Now the house is going to find him in contempt of congress, and don mcgahn is defying the subpoena to come testify what he told mueller. He is potentially going to be held in contempt of congress, too. All of these things are happening all at once. Theyre all indicative of the same big confrontation. The house intelligence subpoena today is part of that, too. The house Intelligence Committee actually does have the law on its side in this new effort they launched today to try to get muellers unredacted findings in his evidence. What theyve got on their side is a post9 11 law that actually affords them access to Justice Department matters that involve foreign intelligence or grave hostile acts of a foreign power. And so, under that law, that post9 11 law, they are, under statute, supposed to get access to what they asked the Justice Department for. And so, theyve asked nicely for it several times, no response from william barr and the Justice Department. So, now its a subpoena. Just as the white house and attorney general william barr tried to shut down the Judiciary Committees path to access muellers full findings and evidence. Tonight, here opened up another path as the Intelligence Committee sends their subpoena as well. Right. So all of these different fights, all of these different subpoenas, all of these different confrontations, they are the same thing. It is trump versus muellers investigation. And the apex concern that the president and the Trump White House and his helpers in this fight must have, the prospect that they must feel lurking under the bed, ready to reach out and grab their ankles if they let a foot touch the floor, right . The gravest boogieman worry theyve got to have right now has to be that Robert Mueller somehow, some way, will be allowed to speak freely and for himself about his own investigation and his own find

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