Capacity in russia right now. This is ours, its new and its russian, and that is awesome. But foreign partners are also welcome to participate. Issue a resume. The project lives on and develops as planned. Inevitable difficulties are being overcome, but we are full confidence that all the tasks will be completed. We need to do this before the big flood. We will be glad to see our friends take part in this noahs Ark Construction project for the global economy. Mary from ocean are r t reporting from timer peninsula in rational than siberia. And thats all for now. Thanks for tuning in. Just make sure to check out our social media pages on instagram, twitter, and catches on roman odyssey for more content. See you at the top of the next hour. Ah ah ah, ah ah. Hello and welcome to cross thought were all things are considered. Im peter lavelle. When youre losing a battle with little or any possibility of victory, thats when you should start to think about ending the conflict. But this is not the case in ukraine today. The longer the conflict last, the worse it is free, kim. It would seem that is washingtons plan with cross sucking ukraine. Im joined by my guest garland nixon in washington. Hes a political analyst in raleigh. We have re, mcgovern, hes a former cia analyst, and in toronto, we cross alice andrew bruno, hes an independent political analysts or a gentleman, cross sack rules and effect. That means you can jump any time you want. And i always appreciate re let me go to you 1st in raleigh. Was that a month after month this conflict goes on more and more weapons are being sent more and more money is being sent. There seems to be political. Chaos in care of with zalinski is inner circle. In some parts of the country, everyone is suspected as being a russian spy. And there has not been one major, even minor victory for the ukrainians. And all of this, the country is getting smaller and smaller. The Foreign Ministry here is made it clear the more long range weapons that are sent to ukraine, the more land russia is going to have to say as it calls liberate. So is this washingtons game plan . Oh, and let me think die. Almost forgot. Congressional delegation, bipartisan said, maybe we should send advisors. I think weve all heard that before. Your thoughts re go ahead. Well, how much time do i have with you . I think. I think the there were 3 major events last week, one of which you mention, and that is course a city left off the Russian Foreign minister said look at things have substantially changed. It has to do with t r. Graphy were, were now was limited our horizon to dont boss than its going to go guns. We already ends up on a washer and a in other parts of more western ukraine. And were going to have to move our forward line still farther to the north and to the south. And to the east. I mean, who, who us . So what was he saying . He said this a wider war now. And he explains explicitly mentioning hi marsh, the high mobility or chill re rock and system that the ukrainians have bragging about, that the u. S. Has given them range of 50 miles mind, you can do a lot of damage. So whats the reaction in washington . That same day or defense minister go up and said, wal, our hi, marsha, working all does, the ukrainian leadership is happy about that and beller, they know how to work on now. Hello, hear it. Youre russia just up the ante and said, look, this is a wider war. Were going to go as far as we have to, to get out of your high mars range. And the defense secretary is kind of what resigned to the fact us, thatd be a wider war, which raises the question of course, is that what the defense secretary . Once he has already said that his aim or usa is to weaken russia . Is that what this is all about to the last ukrainian has ukraine will be a test field for us weaponry. It appears that thats the case, at least until the mid term elections in november. Well, lets go to our guests in toronto. I mean, this is an unconscionable position to take, i mean, fighting the russians to the last ukranian because i have been saying ever since the qu, in february of 2014, is it the more the west, the helps ukraine, the smaller the country gets . Im being proven right every single day. Go ahead in toronto. Hello, i am. Yes, thank you peter. Im, well, i mean the, the situation is very clear and i think this is, this must be part of the goal in washington and european capitals because obviously they dont really care about ukraine if they did, they would have stopped this war from happening before it ever started and, and in fact, the opportunities for doing so were numerous starting from a, i mean the whole entire situation that started in 2014 was the setup. In fact, i think one of the reasons why the democrats were so upset that they lost the 2016 election was perhaps that they had this operation into plans already in 2016. And that was the end goal because of course victoria newland was part of the obama team and she was famously in kias in 2014. So i think the, the, the go from the also from the european perspective. What on earth are they doing for going along with this strategy when it is shooting on their own feet . And this was so clear, i struggle to understand there today what advantages europe is gaining from the continuation of this war. And we, its clear that the more that the war continues and the more weapons that gets ukraine and the more they fight back, in this sense, the russians will have to expand their line. Because that gives them something to negotiate with. And of course, the government is going to, i think, is going to stay there. I dont think the russians have any plans to take over here because they need the negotiating partner. But theyre going to extend that line constantly to get your playing chess when you play, you, you . Well, im sorry. Who i mean . I think the, the u. S. Is playing checkers. I think the russians are playing chess here. Garland, let me go to you here. I want, obviously, what a young tenant consequences is the, the dramatic impact on the global economy. I mean, you know, article after article will europe freeze in the winter, you know, you know, will be, um, bare shelves. I mean, this was this part of the plan. I dont think so, this is the law of unintended consequences for ukraine and we, and its not even democracy is they say its a military junta. Go ahead. Garland of a couple of things. I think number one, based on the history of the neocons and how many lives the needlessly wasted. I dont think theyre concerned with unintended consequences of starvation or things like that around the world. Thats not a concern of theirs. They could care less, they just see all of those lives as collateral. Damage to ultimately achieve their, you know, hedge a monic goals as far as europe. I would disagree with you that thats an unintended consequence on john bolton said or year to go in his book that the, the neocons in washington, particularly in the trump administration, viewed the e u as a, a tremendous economic threat. Second only to china. Sure. So i think the plan was to take out rushes economy and take out the used car economy and theyre not taking out rushes economy, but i think theyll be happy to at least get what they wont. They wont be happy that they didnt get russia, but they will be happy that they subjugated the you and put them in their place and eliminated an industrial and a financial company. Well, i guess so much for western solidarity. Ok, ray, would you want to react to that . Because thats it. Thats a very good point because there the, the, the washington is one in the center has been able to corral europe. I mean, even against its own best interests, european interest here. Theyve won there. But i, i always think i tend to think it as a, as a pie rick victory if you have a, an economy in a, a continental economy that is not productive and competitive. What, what kind of trophy is that go ahead re your, i think your one has to always make room for stupidity. I agree. Now also exceptionalism nice toxic mix. If you think youre exceptional, and youre also not very smart, you may be have academic credentials, but its not very smart. Then you have the kind of economic viruses that are just as, as shippers, as is Foreign Policy advisers. Now these are a lead people who dont know anything about the world. And what economic advisors would have advised these sanctions knowing that russia has oil and gas, its beyond is beyond belief that they would have persuaded biting to do this. But they did. So im not sure everything was quite intended the way it was, but those of garland is completely right. That is the result. And as winter approaches, the hungarians and many more than on gary. And as i come out and say this is, this is a, this is a crock. This is crazy. Lets make a deal with the russians before its too late. A 4 year old before we are free said alice, andrea and in toronto, i, im sure youve come across it as i have. And so for the last few months, coming out of here, we have to stop taking Russian Energy. We my stop, we must stop, and then in the same breath, but they might turn it off. I mean, this is good, so friendly, it is bizarre to watch them at these con, fabs g 7, you know, and madrid, nato. You know, we have to wean ourselves off, but they might turn it off. I mean its, its like talking to a child, go ahead in toronto. Well, its worse in talking to a child, and i actually have been falling this aspect considerably. And every day i look at the, the press throughout europe and worldwide. And in fact, it is exactly a skit. So frantic situation, 1st, they complain about Russian Energy and the fact that they supply all of the energy and that they must cut themselves off from russia. And in fact, that was part of the ideological drive for germany to participate. They are green, foreign minister, and elaine of better bach. I dont know her credentials are not particularly good, but shes one of the big drivers. Theres a big green ideology behind all of this. Yep. And there plan. I think she actually at the beginning a, she actually it the praise the fact that russia was going to cut off gas forcing germany to increase investment in so called clean energy. And of course, clean energy requires gas to work because you know, you filling the gaps of Wind Turbines and sort of panels with guess. And now i see a change of to even an alina burbock is complaining about russia, cutting off the gas supply because of them. Well, the reason were being given is maintenance and the, and the delays with the turbine, the siemens turban that was being maintained in canada. But i believe has been chipped. So now theres another turbine that needs a maintenance and now theyre panicking. And of course, one of the reasons for the panic is that some of the governments in europe are starting to fall. Weve seen the, the train of demise. You know the raggy macro and schultz went to key if a few weeks ago in a train. And now one of those 2 is out, dep added to her, shed have to jump in here. Were going to go, go to it, go to a short break about about short break. Well continue our discussion on ukraine. Say with ah, ah, when i was showing wrong, oh, just a to see how it becomes to advocate an engagement equals the trail. When so many find themselves willing to part, we choose to look for common ground. I was just always your busy man. Yeah. How many times when i was going with this with you, i is with you. Im with so well hold log in with political chris, can i get some food from beach though . The still easy for this patient, but in the border in the book there with ah, welcome back. Across stock were all Things Considered . Im peter the bathroom and you were discussing you. Great. Ah. Okay, lets go back to garland in the swamp. In washington, dc. I, im re pointed out in the beginning of the program, rushes of basic war aims. Got one aim sam for the conflict and i agree with grade that has changed because western strategy has changed as well. But, you know, garland the way i look at it here is that if someone was saying to me a few weeks ago, peter, whats a win win situation here . And i said there is no win win. Theres a win lose. Thats very simple right now. And the outcome of this war, it will be, it will be under russias terms and rushes timetable. What are they gonna do . Sanction russia, theyve emptied out the tool box. They dont have much left. They can do, we get a sanction your gold now. Wow. Theyre really digging deep. Ok, so, i mean, thats why i find washington to be such a curious process. There is that theres no way that ukraine is going to win. And so, and the russians, you know, and just to position, cannot possibly lose. They wouldnt have started this thing if they knew that unless i knew they were going to win. So this is where the log jam is. Go ahead, garland, i think what were looking at was washington, is all its ever been a narrative. Were, i mean, from the very beginning. If you look at the way im president zalinski came in, i mean he came in as a, as a t v show star. And at a, a, basically there was a party that was named literally named after his t v show. So hes been playing a role the whole time. He surrounded himself with people who were involved in the Entertainment Industry and the entire time that this conflict has been going on. The focus of washington has been narrative control and you know, politics and narrative control. And the problem, i think theyre, there, theyre looking at very soon, is that there will be able to control the narrative in europe. But as the people of europe are returned to the hunter gatherer on time, in prehistoric history, i dont think theyre going to be very happy about it. And there have been some questions. Could this be like, right, so i, lanka, sherlock us, will people be wandering through the president ial palace and you know, swimming in the pool. I think there is a, even, maybe even a probability that it could get are worse in europe, because the people in europe are accustomed to a very High Standard of living a, theyve had a long ways to, for example, they hit the ground, theyre going to tear that place live from live re youve worked in government to long time. Youre retired now of course, i mean, how far will washington go to get its way in ukraine when it wont get its way . Give us a prognosis if you will. The problem is peter, that the mid term elections are coming up in just a couple of months in november. Now i agree that the Russian Military advance seems to be inexorable right now. Its going to get really bad by october and november. So what will the us be tempted to do so as not to look week before the russian threat . Now we talk about the democrats who are really in danger of losing both houses of congress. So this is a big deal. Okay. Well, they do, well. Theyll be tempted to give still longer range, missiles, the ones that even patrick, whats her name . The assistance of the pressing for National Security affairs. A several, even even now were not going to give them the longer range missiles that cannot cross that bridge between premier and russia proper. Okay. Well, you know, maybe theyll be tempted to do that then and well have a wider war. But the thing i fear most is what a lever up just a week ago. Very unusual article call. And on a plan stage is the word you use a staged false flag that it could be a murderer. So then ski thats well prepared right now. Blamed on russia, there could be the, the favor, the, the favor calls flag, attack of choice, chemical weapons, whatever. However, there is a look, choose to be used by the russians, and were still russia, and many other places the crane have nuclear sites. They could be sabotaged and again blamed on russia where that would lead. I really hate to fathom because this is a existential threat only in the political sense, the democratic party. Its quite sickening that has to get down to domestic politics. Whos going to win in whos going to lose the whole countries . The whole continents are at stake. How sondra in, in toronto its, its, its continue with what ray had to say about, you know, i been saying this from the very beginning, these false flags. Weve already had a number of them. Theyre all been dads. So theyll probably up the anti. But thats not going to change a rushes behavior on the battlefield. And thats another miscalculation in washington. You can, it is a garland put and they all they have is propaganda. All they have is spreadsheets and videos and stuff like that. They dont, they, they cant win on the battlefield and they know it. So it, it, for me is that theyll throw everything they can at it with this, this thing about pilot recruiting pilots, the steel plains and things like bella, cat, you know, theyre in the game again. But its not going to deter russian. Thats whats really sad about it because we had an opportunity a month in a, in san bowl to somehow come to have a ceasefire or some kind of coming to terms. But the west is determined not to let that happen. And thats why im assuming that zalinski has no agency whatsoever, as garland is pointed out. Hes an actor and all of this go ahead in toronto. Well, i mean the, i actually watched a few episodes of the show in which the lance he was the actor. I think hes speaking russian in the l, which very interesting, hes a russian speaker. And i think his intentions on upon coming in to power were genuine in as far as pushing for some kind of a piece and the following through on the minsk agreement, which of course, this entire war is about the midst minutes agreements because the war started in 2014 and those agreements were the tool to end it. And now we have the advance is the extension of that. The diplomacy to put it in a glass of its terms. Im but im afraid of the false flag events because to me the, the test or shall we say the test run for this war. It was syria where you had a number of false flag attacks starting from 2013. And by the way, naively i was speaking to the u. S. Military, a conference about syria in 2013. And i remember saying to not understanding what the plan was for syria. I pointed to a map and i said, you know, dont bother with syria, dont get involved because the russians are going to handle it. Look at the map, syria is only 1000 kilometers, right . South of russia and their ethnic relations as well. This or casey and so dont get involved and i was looked at very strangely by everyone present. And because of course, that was the goal is to increase the, the chances and opportunities for western involvement, which is what i fear in ukraine. And i think the, the way to stop it apart from the congressional elections. Hopefully some something will come out is europe. Thats the last hope we are seeing governments and you are. Oh my god, who will europe is our last you heard of here on cross sa go. My good with was sarge, with Sergeant Schultz in berlin. Thats our green last, you know, liz, you know, they know theyre pushing there. They know that theyre stopping on their own feet. Its about time that european voters and citizens start rebelling if that happ