Deciding on property taxes or not. Where does it leave us . And now the governor says he wants something new or old or redone or more votes by december 4th, next week. Is that gonna happen . Can anything change here . It can, but, i mean, we have a classic situation here where republicans added. People voted to put more republicans in in the election of 2014, but due to tom corbett being an ineffectual governor, he was the one republican that was defeated. So you have this struggle of the two parties, and republicans are not looking to cave in this time around, and you have these big moving parts, as i see it liquor privatization, property taxes. These guys cant agree on simple things, let alone these huge, complex things. Well, they did have a propertytax vote a few years ago that was very wide apart. This time its 24 24, only split by the lieutenant governors vote. So theyre getting closer on that. Can they get a couple more votes, you think, dom, and put that thing through . Val. Im sorry, val. Im looking at both of you. Im sorry. That propertytax vote was separate and apart from the budget. Theyve been trying to get propertytax reform in pennsylvania for generations now. Right. That would have replaced School Property taxes with a large salestax hike, which would have had tremendous winners and losers. I was surprised it was as close as it was. 24 24 was a very tight vote. I dont think they have that kind of support in the house for it, but theyre gonna give another crack at it again. But thats separate and apart from the budget. They had this it wasnt ideal. It was a framework where they would raise 2 billion in sales taxes and use that to pay down property taxes 1. 4 billion, another 600 million in state spending a dramatic increase in state spending. Theres no support in the house or senate for broadbased incometax or salestax increases. Thats why it fell apart. The governor had to come up with 80 or so votes in the house for it on the democrats side. Its not even clear thats there, let alone on the republican side. In the meantime, social Service Agencies are suffering. We tried to get stopgap funding for social Service Agencies passed and for schools and on and on. The governor vetoed that time and time again, and its really a shame that the most needy in our population are being held hostage. You mentioned that its really a valuesystem differential between republicans and democrats, and neither side wants to give because we have a new governor, of course, and many new folks in the legislature. Does it come down to maybe having fewer exemptions on the sales tax, nelson, and that would raise some funds . Well, i think the whole taxing system is very regressive, which, essentially property taxes are used for school systems, and then to try use a sales tax is really regressive, particularly poor people and the impact that it would have. But as i understand it, Many Democrats are also somewhat upset at this whole process, and some of them are starting to cave in because theyre getting pressure from home as regards to the lack of funding that some of the nonprofits and some of the other agencies are getting. So i think that if the governor doesnt get a deal as soon as possible, i think hes gonna lose the democratic leadership also and a budget will go through without the governors approval. So thats the information that ive received from many of the leadership on the democratic side of the state legislature. So, ajay, does this propertytax issue give an unfair advantage to casinos and skyscrapers and hurt people who are elderly, perhaps, and own their homes, but have no income to speak of . It all depends. If you look at the progressive states, where you use property taxes to Fund Education well, almost all states use realestate taxes to Fund Education the richer neighborhoods have more assets, and as a result, the quality of the schools are better, and the poorer neighborhoods, where the propertytax income is not as great you know, funding does correlate a little bit with what the quality of schools are theyre not as great. If you take that money and you then redistribute it to the poorer schools, that will be one equitable way to do it, but then what happens to reallocation where the good schools were and taking money from there . And nelson is absolutely right. Going to an increase from 6 to 7. 25 on sales tax to generate 2 billion, it will be a disproportionately heavier burden on the poor in our community. I dont know if theres a right or wrong answer there, but either scenario is a sophies choice. Its going to hurt the poor. Now, more and more you think about it, should it be an energy tax . Should it go back to a shale tax to generate that so that we can pump more money into poor neighborhoods . Right. 100 million, 150 million from shale tax, and i dont know if the industrys already on its knees because of low energy prices. You can go there, but the point is, to do what the governor wants, you need broadbase sales or incometax increase. Well, in philadelphia, it would be a 9. 25 sales tax, the second highest in the country outside of california. So renters would lose out on this and lowincome people are gonna buy stuff, and merchants are going crazy, and these representatives that border delaware, for example, or jersey. Sure. People will go delaware, particularly. No sales tax. Right. Thats a big number 9. 25 . Absolutely. It would hurt the smallbusiness person. Sure. And in addition to that, the commercial realestate community is willing to pay more taxes. Yeah. They have said so, and to some extent, because of the way we have our constitution, which has an equalization, you and i, who are residents, pay the same percentages that the commercial taxpayers pay, and until that is fixed and thats gonna take the bravery of some great governor and the Great Legislature to change that structure so therell be a progressive tax instead of this regressive situation. And this bill would also, or a similar legislation that the legislatures proposing, would have a multibilliondollar state takeover of the schools and the school boards, as well as the taxation changes. Arent we in the middle of that already . Well, but i think thats another objection, too. Yes. Just on my show the last couple weeks, people are saying, wait a minute. More moneys gonna go to harrisburg. They determine all this stuff versus the local level. Theres already problems with that over the testing thing coming out of harrisburg. Right. This feeds into another reason to oppose this, and theres strange bedfellows, democrats and republicans, that i think oppose most of this stuff. A lot of people in philadelphia are asking for the end of the s. R. C. Right. I mean, there is a total movement to do that, and if you continue to give harrisburg the entire power, then we give the whole thing to harrisburg. Let them deal with the issues of education, which theyre not. Meantime, were talking about schools, lets talk about an interesting trip that the mayorelect took, along with some of the School Officials and others in the city. They went to ohio to look at whats called community schooling. Its literally at a School Location where local and impoverished neighborhoods can get vision care, medical, dental. Its a food bank, its a Daycare Center if you have younger siblings, mentalhealth counseling so its sort of a onestop shopping that impoverished families can go to, not just for schooling. Teachers would still be teaching over here, but on the rest of the building in a regular, formatted way, families could get all of their needs met, essentially. Its working in ohio. People didnt believe it would, and in some ways they havent had dramatic result changes, but they are, some say, improving the quality of life in some of these impoverished communities. Do you see that happening here, val . Mayorelect kenneys all about it. They are improving the quality of life in those schools, but theyre not fixing education. Thats the problem. My wife and i had a big debate on this last night. Shes involved with pan american Charter School. They do this, and it does really help the kids. The question is, what does it do for test scores . And its a great idea. Children in those School Districts need help, but if you look at the school that mayor kenney went to visit, theyre not doing any better than the schools here in philadelphia. Right. Nine years later. 30 , 40 proficiency, and theres been no improvement in test scores. Were talking about the wrong thing. We need real reform in education. We have to shut down schools that arent performing well, whether theyre charter or public, and we have to provide resources to schools that are doing better. We have to have tenure reform. We have to give principals real power to manage their schools, including curriculum. Until we do those things, youre not gonna see an improvement in education. The other thing is, unions love this kind of thing. Its more union jobs. Theres no reform for unions, for the Teachers Union and the way they do business in philadelphia, pennsylvania. I agree to some extent with your viewpoint, and its whats known as the wraparound system, which is the system which all professional educators have required and imposed. He didnt have to go all the way to ohio. The only school that i see has that kind of system is right here in camden leap. 100 of their kids graduate, and they have this wraparound system where the entire socialservice structure and Educational Programs each one of those kids goes on to college, and youre talking about the same kind of kids that we have here in philadelphia. Well, thats important. Its a great point, i think, judge, too. Certain Schools Succeed in the inner city, even in philadelphia in places like that, and the reasons usually the principal and the parental involvement that the principal engenders or the parents that are there. Its not things like this. This is reinventing it. And kenney, i think, personally, is such an opponent of Charter Schools. Right. Which are what people are voting with. There are bad Charter Schools, corrupt ones, even, but, by and large, any number of these are working, and i think thats what people want. Theres a News Conference scheduled for tomorrow where theyre going to announce what, at least, their hopes and intentions are. Its a low price tag, relatively speaking 65,000 but i would assume that proponents say, look, if you raise the tide, then all the boats go up, and that includes the Family Structure and the quality of life on these daytoday issues that, apparently, are buckling under some kids who cant even get to school, having been fed breakfast, with shoes on. Well, i would say we know what to do. Its do we have the will to do it . Sometimes they make it a mystery lets go off to cincinnati, and we discovered something new . The judge is right. We know what to do. We know what the fundamentals i think val is right what to do. But the will to do that is often not there. Just getting everybody moving in the right direction . Its putting a bandaid on a bigger problem dysfunctional communities, dysfunctional families that have been created, in large part, because of the great society. Theres a guy named Geoffrey Canada in harlem thats doing this kind of thing, but on a holistic basis where he brings in single mothers and their children into his facilities. Theres a Charter School next door. The kids go there. They come home. Theres a counselor there for them to do homework. Moms getting drugabuse counseling or workforce training, or High School Equivalency training, and then she comes homes, spends time with her kids, and thats if you really want to do a holistic approach, lets scrap t. A. N. F. , temporary assistance for needy families and housing vouchers. Lets get these 19yearold moms who are out there, we give them the voucher and say, go live your life. Lets bring them inhouse and do it holistically. But why cant we do both . And the idea behind it, the logic behind it is to be the gravitational pull in neighborhoods, where if the school is a center of community where both social services, as well as education, then the parental involvement, Community Involvement goes hand in hand within the ecosystem that youre generating. So its creating these multiple zones of impact, where the schools themselves become the nucleus of the community. From a logical standpoint, that does make sense. The question is, that on its own will not solve our problem with education. We need the kinds of reforms that youre talking about, val. But the logic does make sense to me. The reforms include, obviously, one of kenneys movements, which, essentially, is the prek. Youve got to start them as early as possible, and i agree with that prek process because there is a guarantee that a prek kid is gonna be reading a heck of a lot faster than a kid who never goes to prek. But look at the difference between a private school and main line, where parents and communities are absolutely involved with the school system, and look at the urban schools where the parents and the community are not involved, and you see the difference. The public and the private schools are good not only because they have good teachers, its also because the entire community is involved with them. But you got to understand the inner city. You know, coming from there, working with them, and then going through the process, the poverty rate is so high that theyre just trying to survive to live, to eat. I went to homes where kids were totally naked. There was drug abuse in the house. There was totally lack of understanding of whats going on. You cant study when youre hungry. Thats right. And a school is a school to them, and if you look at leap, where there is a contract relationship between the school and the home and the child but, judge, thats the point. There are parents that are barely getting by, but theyre not addicted to drugs, theyre in touch with their kids. When theyre in a Charter School or the better Public Schools that work, theres a commitment, and when theres a commitment, this works. And i think the big obstacle and i was a teacher for a number of years in schools like this are the parents that dont care, and the kids that act out, and the school can do nothing to stop it. Its very, very hard to teach. Youre exhausted when you have to deal with kids that are acting out versus the kids that are there to learn. Right. It takes the energy out of the room completely. And thats why a lot of teachers quit. The second year, they quit. They give up. Today they dont have paper in the school system. They dont have books in the school, while if you go across the way to delaware but wait a minute. Theres a budget of 2. 6 billion. 18,000 per kid in philadelphia. So why cant you have toilet paper in the room . Thats what im asking you. Today they have absolutely its the management. Well, if its the management. No, not hite. But ive had him on, the superintendent, and he said, what do you mean theres no toilet paper . He was on the air with me, called, and got toilet paper to the school. Come on. You know, there is absolutely and youre right about principal leadership and getting the wraparound. Last comment. Go ahead, ajay. Its the skins and uniform, but instead of basketball, its really theyre playing football padded vs. Nonpadded. Thats right. The Public Private schools that have the funding, but its more than that. Its the families. They dont have the poverty issue, theyre not hunger issue. They dont have the social, emotional issues. Thats right. By the time they walk into the classroom, they dont just need education, they need a full array of social services by the time they walk in, and thats why its an uneven fight. And thats what works, and thats what the experts tell you in terms of the wraparound, and thats what happened to me, and so if you have a kid who was sick, who had asthma, who had all of the problems, and then you have him able then to learn and to be educated and then turn around, and then the language issue. Youve got to look at the holistic approach, and i believe that works, and with all of that money thats there, if you compare the money thats being used you said 18,000 per kid and you look at the amount thats being used in the Camden School system at leap that has a relationship with Rutgers University . Right. There is a Community Commitment by the institution, also. So we need these universities to commit. Well, we said this before, judge. Penns committed out in west philly, and thats why people camped out in the cold to go to that school. Every college in the city should be demanded to have a relationship with a school in the manner that penn does with that alexander school. All right. Were gonna take a break. Inside story continues right after this. Inside story is presented by temple university. Temple fuels students with academics and opportunities to take charge. Plugged into the city, powered by the world. Temple. Edu takecharge. A new entity is saying she may have to go. It is the pennsylvania legislative reference bureau. They are a nonbinding legal advisory board, and the senate and governor asked, can we get her out . , and, legally, do we have the means . , and this board said, yes. Now the question is, should they . Should they . Do you think they should, ajay . Well, the question is not whether they should or not. Everybody is saying at this point, she was elected to serve the public, and i think her credibility is absolutely shot, and that office is essentially an impotent office. So whether it is through youre wearing an orange jumpsuit or whether it is by removal or whether it is by suspension, i think the writings on the wall. She said she wont leave without a subpoena. Right. Everybody can read it except for kathleen kane. Okay. Do you think they will make that move . Thats very bold. Theres removal and theres impeachment. Were looking at removal here. I think she should be removed. Though as a republican leader, i can tell you, shes the gift that keeps on giving for us, for our side, because its an embarrassment to the democrats, many of whom still have not called for her removal. But, yes, i think she should be