Transcripts For WTXF FOX News Sunday With Chris Wallace 2014

Certainly wont be done by hurting anybody. How does the country ease the tension between race and Law Enforcement. Well ask former new york city mayor Rudy Giuliani. Plus, what role does the media play in the turmoil surrounding ferguson. Most significant challenge encountered has been the 24 hour you cycle and appetite for anything to talk about. All right now. On a special Fox News Sunday. And hello again from fox news in washington. Police offer Darren Wilson announced late saturday he has resigned from the Ferguson Police force. But the decision not to indict him has left ferguson and the nation in turmoil. Today, we want to examine the fallout from several angles. Well discuss with attorneys from both sides. What does the case say about Racial Discrimination in our police forces. Well ask two leaders about the problems and possible reforms. First, the latest from ferguson. Reporter Darren Wilson explained that he wanted to continue with police work, but the department was receiving threats if he remained on the force. He now hopes his resignation will allow this community to heal. News of the resignation renewed vigor in the ferguson demonstration. Supporters of the naacp setoff on a 120mile march. What were seeking a federal, state and municipal legislation. Reporter demonstrators are staging dieins where they play on the ground, at a missouri mall. They did it in seattle as well. That was also the tactic in portland where police made arrests and reverend Jesse Jackson encouraged the crowd. We must fight it. Reporter portland also produced a warm moment from the demonstration. A photograph of a white Police Officer hugging a young black protest tore. Back in ferguson, volunteers pitch in. Being without a job around thanksgiving, then you dont have a job to buy your kids any christmas presents or even to provide food. Reporter the state of missouri has already spent 4 million for National Guard troops, 3. 4 million on state troopers. And the Governors Office says its not enough. Chris . Reporting for ferguson. Thanks for that. Now, lets bring in members of the legal team on both sides. Neil bruntrager whos an attorney for Darren Wilson. And one of the lawyers for Michael Browns family. I want to talk about the breaking news. Why did Darren Wilson decide to resign from the Ferguson Police department and does he still fear for his life. He decided to resign because we had gotten information directly from the chief in ferguson that they had information suggested there were going to be acts taken against members of the department or the department itself related to his continued employment. He simply said, thats enough. And it was time to resign. Does he still feel hes in danger . Does he still feel hes a marked man in the st. Louis area . He does, chris. Its a shame. Mr. Parks, lets get to the evidence in this case. What do you think is the single biggest hole in officer wilsons testimony . What do you think is the strongest reason that that grand jury should have indicted him . I believe the strongest reason is the reason of his socalled fear as michael approached him. For what i can tell in my investigation of this case, almost all of the gunshots that michael received he could have lived from except for the head shot. So the head shot, the kill shot was to the apex of his head. Its my opinion that given the fact where his head was positioned at the time of that shot, that this officer had other reasonable means and could have subdued michael and failed to do so. Let me pick up on that. There seems little question that Michael Brown attacked officer wilson in his car, grabbed for his gun. But here i think is the question that a lot of people ask. Why did wilson get out of the car and follow Michael Brown . Why not just stay in his car, from him in the car and wait for backup when there would be more people and they could subdue him without a shooting death . The information that we have is that Michael Brown, immediately after the scuffle in the car, Michael Brown takes off. Darren wilsons job is to keep his eyes on Michael Brown. He has said in his statements to the feds, grand jury, listen, the reason i got out of the car was not to arrest Michael Brown. I couldnt he didnt believe for a minute that he could subdue Michael Brown by himself. His job was to keep eyes on him wherever he went. Why not just follow him in his car and wait for the backup . Well, because what if he gets off the road, what if he gets into the neighborhood which is exactly where he was going . You cant follow everywhere in the car itself. Mr. Parks . His job is to keep eyes on him. Couple of problems, chris. One, when the officer got out of the car, witnesses have testified that he continued to shoot at michael as michael was running away. Wait, wait. Mr. Parks, he wasnt shot in the back. He was shot in the front. Just because you shoot at him, doesnt mean you have to hit him. Thats thats part of the problem thats happened in this case. Just because i shoot at you a few of the shoots that the officer shot missed him. One of the shots to his arm could have come from the back. Yes, witnesses say he shot at him. He may have missed him. At some point, michael turned around. So other people glance over the aspect of the fact that what made michael turn around. He turned around because he had been hit and the witnesses further testified that michael said, hey, why you shooting, quit shooting. Was he turning around to give up or turning around to attack officer wilson . He was turning around to attack officer wilson. Everybody has a right to their opinions. They dont have the right to their own set of facts. The single most important piece of evidence is the blood spot thats about 25 to 35 feet away from his body. We know he went to a farthest point north because his blood is there. He has come come back towards officer wilson and thats when he is shot. When he is shot, hes about 8 to 10 feet. In the final shot, hes about 8 to 10 feet from officer wilson. We call that the kiln zone. He can reach officer wilson. Officer wilson indicated that he believed Michael Brown intended to kill him. Look at the shell casings on the ground too. Let me pick up on this. Mr. Parks, missouri law is pretty clear. What it basically says is that a Police Officer is entitled to take deadly force if he reasonably believes his life or someone elses life is in imminent danger. Here is what Darren Wilson told abc news. I gave myself, can i shoot this guy, legally, can i. And the question i answered myself was, i have to. If i dont, he will kill me if he gets to me. Mr. Parks doesnt what you just heard there meet the legal threshold for an officer being allowed to use deadly force . Well, chris, lets not confuse two things. Number one and i know were going to deal with the issue of the grand jurys actions later in this show. However, thats a defense. Whether or not his belief is reasonable. All right. We believe number one, there should have been an indictment. There was enough here that the officer should have been indicted. If you have an issue or have that defense, which is fine, have that defense before a jury so the evidence can be properly presented by both sides in the case. We do not believe the manner in which this was handled, where you have a prosecutors officer, but also putting on other evidence that puts forth the possible defenses or actions or justifications in this case. You cant have it both ways. Thats not how the process should work. You have called the decision not to indict a travesty and this prosecutor did something unusual but not unprecedented which is that he simply presented all the evidence to the 12 grand jurors and let them make up their mind. Why does he have to seek an indictment. Why cant he leave it up to the grand jurors. Given the fact you have this process where he goes in he goes in and one, just gives them all the evidence. Its not as if hes putting in a posture to get an indictment. It appears hes not wanting an indictment. When a prosecutor wants an indictment, a prosecutor puts forth the evidence that will line up to get an indictment from the grand jury. And the prosecutor buy his actions whether verbal or nonverbal indicates to the jury, i want an indictment in this case. It was clear that was not the case in this case. Thats why we should not be surprised there was no indictment in this case. The fact is that the Legal Standard in grand juries which is probable cause is a pretty low standard. Generally speaking, grand juries are instructed to indict if there is some evidence of guilt. Didnt they reach that standard . Obviously the jurors didnt think so. No, they didnt. When you look at the missouri statutes regarding grand juries, fwrjs are formed for a number of reasons. They can be called to do just what they did here. They can be called to look at the information and decide. I find it astonishing that we have criticism of this grand jury. People say they were given way too much information. At least grand juries operate in an entirely different way than a trial jury. They have sometimes a week between sessions. They can ask questions if they want, unlike regular injuries. This grand jury clearly looked at everything. They asked questions. They were engaged. I dont know how we get in the head of the prosecutor by perhaps some means to sort of figure out that they didnt want an indictment. I dont see that. Ive read these transcripts. What i see is a prosecutor who put all this information in front of a grand jury and said, you decide. Mr. Parks chris, if i may real quickly. Were not indicting the grand jury. I dont blame the members of the grand jury. Mr. Parks, is the brown family, which you represent, are they going to file a civil lawsuit against officer wilson . If so, on what grounds . Obviously, they have the option of a civil lawsuit, civil rights basis against officer wilson and against the department if that time comes. We will certainly give the parties a chance to work that out among the parties if they choose to. If and when we need to make it a publish, we will. As of now, it is not. Are you suggesting a possible settlement . No, i mean, i think theres a chance to resolve whatever differences we may have. That could be a settlement. It could be some form of litigation. It just depends. Theyll have a chance to do whatever they deem proper in the situation and well react. Reacting to that, what do you think of the merits of a civil lawsuit by the brown family against your client . And also what do you think of the merits of a federal lawsuit if they decide to bring it which would have to prove that officer wilson intended to violate Michael Browns civil rights . You have a situation where we know theres still on on going federal investigation. If the feds decide theyre going to bring an action against Darren Wilson, it would have to be some sort of allegation that he violated the civil rights of Michael Brown. In order to do that, you have to show that he intended to violate his civil rights. Its that you intend to actually violate his civil rights. Thats a pretty high bar and what about the civil thats an entirely different question. Its really not directed to the individual, its directed to the Police Department itself for a variety of reasons. I think theyre going to have a difficult road, but every american has the right to seek redress in the courts. We want to thank you both so much for joining us today. Thank you. Thank you, chris. Up next, well examine the big picture. Tension between police and black communities when we sit down with former new york city mayor Rudy Giuliani and marc morial. And what do you think . Let me know on facebook or twitter at Fox News Sunday and use the hash tag, fns. Change engineering in dubai, aluminum production in south africa, and the Aerospace Industry in the u. S. . At t. Rowe price, we understand the connections of a complex, global economy. Its just one reason over 70 of our mutual funds beat their 10year lipper average. T. Rowe price. Invest with confidence. Request a prospectus or summary prospectus with investment information, risks, fees and expenses to read and consider carefully before investing. The decision to bring no charges in the Michael Brown case has reopened old wounds of mistrust between Law Enforcement and the black community. Well talk to marc morial in a moment. First, former new york city mayor, Rudy Giuliani. I want to start with the federal investigation of officer wilson and also of the Ferguson Police department. Heres what president obama had to say this week. The frustrations that weve seen are not just about a particular incident. They have deep roots in many communities of color who have a sense that our laws are not always being forced uniformly or fairly. Mayor, do you see any basis for either investigation by attorney general holder and his Justice Department . Having read the transcripts now of the grand jury, fbi interviews, i dont see how this case normally would even have been brought to a grand jury. This is the kind of case had it not had the racial overtones and National Publicity where a prosecutor would have come to the conclusion that there is not enough evidence to present to the grand jury. There are seven witnesses who support the Police Officers testimony. When i was listening, what was left out is a key witness, an africanamerican witness says that the officer was charged aggressively at the very end. If i may, sir, the question, though is what do you think now of it going to the federal level and attorney general holder investigating . Its the same testimony. Its the same witnesses. In other words, the attorney general is going to have to take a case in which a jury couldnt find probable cause to indict and hes going to have to find probable cause in front of a grand jury. The witnesses on the other side, not all, but almost all of them have impeachable testimony. In fact, a couple of them committed perjury. Its an impossible case to present to a grand jury. A federal grand jury, having been in front of hundreds of them, would find no true bill here. Mayor, if i can nobody wants to read these transcripts. Let me move you onto the bigger issue. 70 of blacks say people in their community are treated less fairly than whites in dealing with the police. Only 37 of whites make the same complaint. Question, do you think that blacks have a legitimate complaint about Racial Discrimination by police in their communities . Yes, i do. I do believe that there is more interaction and more unfair interaction between Police Officers, white and black. And i think some of that responsibility is on the Police Department. And on Police Departments to train their Police Officers better and to make their Police Departments much more diverse find. But i think just as much if not more responsibility is on the black community to reduce the reason why the Police Officers are assigned to such large numbers. Its because blacks commit murder eight times ber capiper. We didnt do it based on race. If there were a lot of murders in a community, we put a lot of Police Officers there. If i put all my Police Officers on park avenue and none in harlem, thousands and thousands more blacks would have killed during the eight years i was mayor. Mayor, were running out of time. I do want to ask you about a specific case in cleveland this week. Were going to put the video up. Im sure youre familiar with the case. This was a 12yearold boy Walking Around waving what turned out to be an air pistol. Police responded to a call and an officer comes up and shoots him dead in two seconds. Does this give a sense of what the black communities complain about that police are on a hair trigger in their communities . Theres no question that individual cases have situations that are unjust fied. But you have to put in proper context. Why is it happening . Why is it happening more often in the black community . Doesnt it make sense that its going to happen more often in the community were there is nine times more violence than in another community . So if you want to work on the problem, you got to work on both sides. When the president talked about training, he talked about training police. Im all with him. We have a diverse Police Department in new york. You got to work on the other side of it too. This is not a onesided story and it is presented always as a onesided story. Thats why were talking to you, sir. Ive got one minute left. There are several reforms that the police are talking about now. I want to put them on the screen. Putting body cameras on police, having a police force that reflects the racial makeup of a community, ending broken window and stop and frisk. Are those good ideas . Yes, yes, and no. I changed my mind on body cameras. Now i believe they are a very good idea. 7895 of these situations, the Police Officers turn out to be justified. And had this Law Enforcement<\/a>. Well ask former new york city mayor Rudy Giuliani<\/a>. Plus, what role does the media play in the turmoil surrounding ferguson. Most significant challenge encountered has been the 24 hour you cycle and appetite for anything to talk about. All right now. On a special Fox News Sunday<\/a>. And hello again from fox news in washington. Police offer Darren Wilson<\/a> announced late saturday he has resigned from the Ferguson Police<\/a> force. But the decision not to indict him has left ferguson and the nation in turmoil. Today, we want to examine the fallout from several angles. Well discuss with attorneys from both sides. What does the case say about Racial Discrimination<\/a> in our police forces. Well ask two leaders about the problems and possible reforms. First, the latest from ferguson. Reporter Darren Wilson<\/a> explained that he wanted to continue with police work, but the department was receiving threats if he remained on the force. He now hopes his resignation will allow this community to heal. News of the resignation renewed vigor in the ferguson demonstration. Supporters of the naacp setoff on a 120mile march. What were seeking a federal, state and municipal legislation. Reporter demonstrators are staging dieins where they play on the ground, at a missouri mall. They did it in seattle as well. That was also the tactic in portland where police made arrests and reverend Jesse Jackson<\/a> encouraged the crowd. We must fight it. Reporter portland also produced a warm moment from the demonstration. A photograph of a white Police Officer<\/a> hugging a young black protest tore. Back in ferguson, volunteers pitch in. Being without a job around thanksgiving, then you dont have a job to buy your kids any christmas presents or even to provide food. Reporter the state of missouri has already spent 4 million for National Guard<\/a> troops, 3. 4 million on state troopers. And the Governors Office<\/a> says its not enough. Chris . Reporting for ferguson. Thanks for that. Now, lets bring in members of the legal team on both sides. Neil bruntrager whos an attorney for Darren Wilson<\/a>. And one of the lawyers for Michael Browns<\/a> family. I want to talk about the breaking news. Why did Darren Wilson<\/a> decide to resign from the Ferguson Police<\/a> department and does he still fear for his life. He decided to resign because we had gotten information directly from the chief in ferguson that they had information suggested there were going to be acts taken against members of the department or the department itself related to his continued employment. He simply said, thats enough. And it was time to resign. Does he still feel hes in danger . Does he still feel hes a marked man in the st. Louis area . He does, chris. Its a shame. Mr. Parks, lets get to the evidence in this case. What do you think is the single biggest hole in officer wilsons testimony . What do you think is the strongest reason that that grand jury should have indicted him . I believe the strongest reason is the reason of his socalled fear as michael approached him. For what i can tell in my investigation of this case, almost all of the gunshots that michael received he could have lived from except for the head shot. So the head shot, the kill shot was to the apex of his head. Its my opinion that given the fact where his head was positioned at the time of that shot, that this officer had other reasonable means and could have subdued michael and failed to do so. Let me pick up on that. There seems little question that Michael Brown<\/a> attacked officer wilson in his car, grabbed for his gun. But here i think is the question that a lot of people ask. Why did wilson get out of the car and follow Michael Brown<\/a> . Why not just stay in his car, from him in the car and wait for backup when there would be more people and they could subdue him without a shooting death . The information that we have is that Michael Brown<\/a>, immediately after the scuffle in the car, Michael Brown<\/a> takes off. Darren wilsons job is to keep his eyes on Michael Brown<\/a>. He has said in his statements to the feds, grand jury, listen, the reason i got out of the car was not to arrest Michael Brown<\/a>. I couldnt he didnt believe for a minute that he could subdue Michael Brown<\/a> by himself. His job was to keep eyes on him wherever he went. Why not just follow him in his car and wait for the backup . Well, because what if he gets off the road, what if he gets into the neighborhood which is exactly where he was going . You cant follow everywhere in the car itself. Mr. Parks . His job is to keep eyes on him. Couple of problems, chris. One, when the officer got out of the car, witnesses have testified that he continued to shoot at michael as michael was running away. Wait, wait. Mr. Parks, he wasnt shot in the back. He was shot in the front. Just because you shoot at him, doesnt mean you have to hit him. Thats thats part of the problem thats happened in this case. Just because i shoot at you a few of the shoots that the officer shot missed him. One of the shots to his arm could have come from the back. Yes, witnesses say he shot at him. He may have missed him. At some point, michael turned around. So other people glance over the aspect of the fact that what made michael turn around. He turned around because he had been hit and the witnesses further testified that michael said, hey, why you shooting, quit shooting. Was he turning around to give up or turning around to attack officer wilson . He was turning around to attack officer wilson. Everybody has a right to their opinions. They dont have the right to their own set of facts. The single most important piece of evidence is the blood spot thats about 25 to 35 feet away from his body. We know he went to a farthest point north because his blood is there. He has come come back towards officer wilson and thats when he is shot. When he is shot, hes about 8 to 10 feet. In the final shot, hes about 8 to 10 feet from officer wilson. We call that the kiln zone. He can reach officer wilson. Officer wilson indicated that he believed Michael Brown<\/a> intended to kill him. Look at the shell casings on the ground too. Let me pick up on this. Mr. Parks, missouri law is pretty clear. What it basically says is that a Police Officer<\/a> is entitled to take deadly force if he reasonably believes his life or someone elses life is in imminent danger. Here is what Darren Wilson<\/a> told abc news. I gave myself, can i shoot this guy, legally, can i. And the question i answered myself was, i have to. If i dont, he will kill me if he gets to me. Mr. Parks doesnt what you just heard there meet the legal threshold for an officer being allowed to use deadly force . Well, chris, lets not confuse two things. Number one and i know were going to deal with the issue of the grand jurys actions later in this show. However, thats a defense. Whether or not his belief is reasonable. All right. We believe number one, there should have been an indictment. There was enough here that the officer should have been indicted. If you have an issue or have that defense, which is fine, have that defense before a jury so the evidence can be properly presented by both sides in the case. We do not believe the manner in which this was handled, where you have a prosecutors officer, but also putting on other evidence that puts forth the possible defenses or actions or justifications in this case. You cant have it both ways. Thats not how the process should work. You have called the decision not to indict a travesty and this prosecutor did something unusual but not unprecedented which is that he simply presented all the evidence to the 12 grand jurors and let them make up their mind. Why does he have to seek an indictment. Why cant he leave it up to the grand jurors. Given the fact you have this process where he goes in he goes in and one, just gives them all the evidence. Its not as if hes putting in a posture to get an indictment. It appears hes not wanting an indictment. When a prosecutor wants an indictment, a prosecutor puts forth the evidence that will line up to get an indictment from the grand jury. And the prosecutor buy his actions whether verbal or nonverbal indicates to the jury, i want an indictment in this case. It was clear that was not the case in this case. Thats why we should not be surprised there was no indictment in this case. The fact is that the Legal Standard<\/a> in grand juries which is probable cause is a pretty low standard. Generally speaking, grand juries are instructed to indict if there is some evidence of guilt. Didnt they reach that standard . Obviously the jurors didnt think so. No, they didnt. When you look at the missouri statutes regarding grand juries, fwrjs are formed for a number of reasons. They can be called to do just what they did here. They can be called to look at the information and decide. I find it astonishing that we have criticism of this grand jury. People say they were given way too much information. At least grand juries operate in an entirely different way than a trial jury. They have sometimes a week between sessions. They can ask questions if they want, unlike regular injuries. This grand jury clearly looked at everything. They asked questions. They were engaged. I dont know how we get in the head of the prosecutor by perhaps some means to sort of figure out that they didnt want an indictment. I dont see that. Ive read these transcripts. What i see is a prosecutor who put all this information in front of a grand jury and said, you decide. Mr. Parks chris, if i may real quickly. Were not indicting the grand jury. I dont blame the members of the grand jury. Mr. Parks, is the brown family, which you represent, are they going to file a civil lawsuit against officer wilson . If so, on what grounds . Obviously, they have the option of a civil lawsuit, civil rights basis against officer wilson and against the department if that time comes. We will certainly give the parties a chance to work that out among the parties if they choose to. If and when we need to make it a publish, we will. As of now, it is not. Are you suggesting a possible settlement . No, i mean, i think theres a chance to resolve whatever differences we may have. That could be a settlement. It could be some form of litigation. It just depends. Theyll have a chance to do whatever they deem proper in the situation and well react. Reacting to that, what do you think of the merits of a civil lawsuit by the brown family against your client . And also what do you think of the merits of a federal lawsuit if they decide to bring it which would have to prove that officer wilson intended to violate Michael Browns<\/a> civil rights . You have a situation where we know theres still on on going federal investigation. If the feds decide theyre going to bring an action against Darren Wilson<\/a>, it would have to be some sort of allegation that he violated the civil rights of Michael Brown<\/a>. In order to do that, you have to show that he intended to violate his civil rights. Its that you intend to actually violate his civil rights. Thats a pretty high bar and what about the civil thats an entirely different question. Its really not directed to the individual, its directed to the Police Department<\/a> itself for a variety of reasons. I think theyre going to have a difficult road, but every american has the right to seek redress in the courts. We want to thank you both so much for joining us today. Thank you. Thank you, chris. Up next, well examine the big picture. Tension between police and black communities when we sit down with former new york city mayor Rudy Giuliani<\/a> and marc morial. And what do you think . Let me know on facebook or twitter at Fox News Sunday<\/a> and use the hash tag, fns. Change engineering in dubai, aluminum production in south africa, and the Aerospace Industry<\/a> in the u. S. . At t. Rowe price, we understand the connections of a complex, global economy. Its just one reason over 70 of our mutual funds beat their 10year lipper average. T. Rowe price. Invest with confidence. Request a prospectus or summary prospectus with investment information, risks, fees and expenses to read and consider carefully before investing. The decision to bring no charges in the Michael Brown<\/a> case has reopened old wounds of mistrust between Law Enforcement<\/a> and the black community. Well talk to marc morial in a moment. First, former new york city mayor, Rudy Giuliani<\/a>. I want to start with the federal investigation of officer wilson and also of the Ferguson Police<\/a> department. Heres what president obama had to say this week. The frustrations that weve seen are not just about a particular incident. They have deep roots in many communities of color who have a sense that our laws are not always being forced uniformly or fairly. Mayor, do you see any basis for either investigation by attorney general holder and his Justice Department<\/a> . Having read the transcripts now of the grand jury, fbi interviews, i dont see how this case normally would even have been brought to a grand jury. This is the kind of case had it not had the racial overtones and National Publicity<\/a> where a prosecutor would have come to the conclusion that there is not enough evidence to present to the grand jury. There are seven witnesses who support the Police Officer<\/a>s testimony. When i was listening, what was left out is a key witness, an africanamerican witness says that the officer was charged aggressively at the very end. If i may, sir, the question, though is what do you think now of it going to the federal level and attorney general holder investigating . Its the same testimony. Its the same witnesses. In other words, the attorney general is going to have to take a case in which a jury couldnt find probable cause to indict and hes going to have to find probable cause in front of a grand jury. The witnesses on the other side, not all, but almost all of them have impeachable testimony. In fact, a couple of them committed perjury. Its an impossible case to present to a grand jury. A federal grand jury, having been in front of hundreds of them, would find no true bill here. Mayor, if i can nobody wants to read these transcripts. Let me move you onto the bigger issue. 70 of blacks say people in their community are treated less fairly than whites in dealing with the police. Only 37 of whites make the same complaint. Question, do you think that blacks have a legitimate complaint about Racial Discrimination<\/a> by police in their communities . Yes, i do. I do believe that there is more interaction and more unfair interaction between Police Officer<\/a>s, white and black. And i think some of that responsibility is on the Police Department<\/a>. And on Police Department<\/a>s to train their Police Officer<\/a>s better and to make their Police Department<\/a>s much more diverse find. But i think just as much if not more responsibility is on the black community to reduce the reason why the Police Officer<\/a>s are assigned to such large numbers. Its because blacks commit murder eight times ber capiper. We didnt do it based on race. If there were a lot of murders in a community, we put a lot of Police Officer<\/a>s there. If i put all my Police Officer<\/a>s on park avenue and none in harlem, thousands and thousands more blacks would have killed during the eight years i was mayor. Mayor, were running out of time. I do want to ask you about a specific case in cleveland this week. Were going to put the video up. Im sure youre familiar with the case. This was a 12yearold boy Walking Around<\/a> waving what turned out to be an air pistol. Police responded to a call and an officer comes up and shoots him dead in two seconds. Does this give a sense of what the black communities complain about that police are on a hair trigger in their communities . Theres no question that individual cases have situations that are unjust fied. But you have to put in proper context. Why is it happening . Why is it happening more often in the black community . Doesnt it make sense that its going to happen more often in the community were there is nine times more violence than in another community . So if you want to work on the problem, you got to work on both sides. When the president talked about training, he talked about training police. Im all with him. We have a diverse Police Department<\/a> in new york. You got to work on the other side of it too. This is not a onesided story and it is presented always as a onesided story. Thats why were talking to you, sir. Ive got one minute left. There are several reforms that the police are talking about now. I want to put them on the screen. Putting body cameras on police, having a police force that reflects the racial makeup of a community, ending broken window and stop and frisk. Are those good ideas . Yes, yes, and no. I changed my mind on body cameras. Now i believe they are a very good idea. 7895 of these situations, the Police Officer<\/a>s turn out to be justified. And had this Police Officer<\/a> had a body camera, we would not be having this discussion. Very briefly, in 30 seconds, whats wrong with the one you said no to, which is the aggressive missing . Aggressive police, stop and frisk means searching for guns. If youre talking about massive stop and frisk, obviously thats wrong. Strop and frisk is based on a reasonable cause to believe somebodys committing a crime. If you overdo it, then it is wrong. So maybe the answer to that is yes and no. First two questions, the answer is yes. We want to thank you for coming in and talking with us. Thank you. Now lets bring in the former mayor of new orleans, marc morial. Mayor giuliani likes to point out that 93 of blacks in america are killed by other blacks. The point hes making and i think a lot of people are making is when the protestors and civil rights leaders are focusing on the problem with police, arent they ignoring the real problem in the community . About 84 of all whites are murdered by other whites. The concern about violence in the black community is pervasive. It should be no mistake that black on black violence is not tolerated in the black community. The protests are directed at the response of the system, to the killings of unarmed black men, in the case of cleveland, a child and the lack of accountability when those events take place. Weve had five highprofile incidents in this country in a short period of time. Now the young boy down in out in cleveland. Combined with the fact that the number of killings of citizens by police is at a twodecade high, all of this is a perfect storm of events which means that theres this response across the nation, peaceful protests for the most part, that says this must change. Lets talk about possible reforms. The urban league is calling for a number of reforms, including federal reviews of every police killing. Why is that necessary . I think why cant the local community handle that, sir . I think the history has been i heard mayor giuliani talk about this. In the rodney king case, in the bridge case in new orleans, those are all cases where local prosecutors failed to either seek or secure an indictment or a conviction, where the federal government stepped in after the fact and secured justice for the victims. The history is simply not good for local prosecutors and to some extent local Police Department<\/a>s policeing their own. Thats why this is a time for us to change how we handle these incidences. I think there ought to be a National Accreditation<\/a> system. I think every city should review their deadly force policy. I think that cities should also completely revise how they train. They have to reevaluate how they hire Police Officer<\/a>s. This is a time when weve got to promote positive change. I led a city, new orleans, at the same time rudy led new york. We reduced crime by 60 and we also had a significant reduction in civil rights complaints against Police Department<\/a>s. So this is a false, if you will, narrative, that youve got to be out there doing stop and frisk. That theres a trade off between safety and violations of citizens civil rights. I think you can do both, and i think thats the future weve got to embrace in this nation. Lets talk about that. You just heard mayor giuliani. He agreed with you about the body cams. He agreed about having a police force that more accurately reflects the racial makeup of a city. Obvious obviously, that wasnt the case in ferguson. Where he disagreed with you partially was on the question of Aggressive Police<\/a> forcing. You have called for an end to the broken window kind of it, doesnt it actually go down . You selectively and in a tarted way is absolutely permissible and a valid police tool. Using it comprehensively all the way across the city. One of the experiences that caught my eye in new york was that many of these stops and frisks did not yield the recovery of a gun or a prosecution or a conviction for for weapons charges. So its an inefficient way. I think its better, if you will, to embrace a Proactive Police<\/a> system where Police Officer<\/a>s are out on the beat, where theyre building relationships with people in the community. Because after all, the way you bring down crime in a community is by preventing crime from occurring. Thats the essence of community police. It focuses on prevention. My experiences in new orleans in the 1990s was is that you could combine an accountable police force with public safety, bring down crime and reduce friction between Police Officer<\/a>s and the community. Those are the kinds of things that the urban league embraces. We want to thank you so much for come nlg today, sir. Thank you. We take a closer look at president obamas response this week. There are ways of channels your concerns constructively and there are ways of channelling your concerns destructively. The image that said so much this week. The president appealing for calm while ferguson burns. Our sunday group joins the conversation. You wont take my life. You wont take our future. Aids affects us all. Even babies. Chevron is working to stop mothertochild transmission. Our employees and their families are part of the fight. And were winning. At chevron nigeria, we havent had a reported case in 14 years. Aids is strong. But we are stronger. And aids. Aids is going to lose. There are productive ways of responding and expressing those frustrations and there are destructive ways of responding. Burning buildings, torching cars, destroying property, putting people at risk, thats destructive and theres no excuse for it. President obama trying rep t repeatedly this week to put a lid on the anger that erupted across the country after the grand jury decided not to bring charges against the ferguson missouri. Its time now for our sunday group. Julie strassel, the Washington Post<\/a> robert costa and bob woodward also. Lets start from that infamous split screen. The picture on the one side of president obama urging calm and on the other side, the streets of ferguson erupting. How much hand wringing was there at the white house after the fact . I think the response that you saw from them was to have him go out and speak again on tuesday. It was interesting the day that the nonindictment came down, the white house really wanted the president to be out there. Its very unusual for him to speak that late into the evening, yet it created these awkward on sticks where you had the president calling for calm and seeing this unrest. You knew how the situation had played out on tuesday. It was difficult just moments after we knew what had happened for him to Say Something<\/a> that really meant something, because we didnt know yet how this was going to play out. It wasnt just the president. We asked you for questions for the panel and we got a lot of questions about media coverage. Did walltowall coverage help encourage outrageous behavior . I know it is news, but some of the coverage seem to be rooting for the worst . Good questions. How do you answer . Well, i think the media criticism is somewhat fair, perhaps it was a bit heavy. When you look at the Washington Post<\/a> coverage, it has been solid throughout. When it comes to timing, i think the blame could be on how the prosecutor handled this. The timing at night seemed to provoke a lot of interest and questions about timing. I think the media has been pretty deep nationally and politically. You put on tv lights, you put on the cameras, theyre there, youre going to attract a car. That one burning car certainly got a lot of coverage. This is a major issue. Its a tragedy what happened to mr. Brown. This is causing a lot of discussion around the country about race, about politics, about even the media. I think the media has been subject to some unfair criticism for going overboard. I want to audiocassette about that now, the bigger picture. Weve seen this before. We saw it for instance in los angeles after the rodney king beating. What do you take as the lesson here about tensions, not just in ferguson, but generally between the Police Department<\/a>s and the black communities where they enforce the law . Theres always going to be criticism, but the media always have to cover it. Im talking about the tensions between the black community and the police. Then you need to dig into and do stories about that. Whats really interesting is that the prosecutor put out all the grand jury testimony. When you look at it, it is hopelessly contradictory. He let people, hey, look, this is what we some people said he was giving up, some people said he was charging like a bull. It is a classic case of, you know, how do you find out what happened. And they didnt and so were seeing this all play out. But i i think thats fine. I think actually what obama had to say was sensible and reasonable and the issue here is the Racial Division<\/a> in this country which still exists which Everyone Needs<\/a> to address. A case like this enflames it of course. But you cant walk away from that. You know, the Racial Division<\/a>s do exist and one of the and persist. One of the things so striking was the tremendously different reactions in the White Community<\/a> and the black community to this. The forensic evidence at least in terms of what went on inside that car all back officer wilsons story. Clearly, his dna was inside, it was on on officer wilsons body. There was clearly a struggle that went on inside there. Theres no question that the big threat to the black community is from other blacks. I found out this week the number one cause of homicide in the black community, young blacks ages 15 to 34 is homicide. Homicide. Yet it all goes out the window when one of these cases happens. I think this is were there is some cull pability in the whies. The president has said all the right things this week. I think one of the questions, though, was leading up to it. In particular, eric holders decision to launch his own investigation into the wilson action and on a civil rights potential case which is a very high bar, as you heard, to do a separate probe into weather the actions of the entire actions of the Police Department<\/a>. All of that led to the impression that there was something not fair or right or suspect about what was going on in the Justice System<\/a> in ferguson. And that has allowed a lot of people to come out and say, and you get these varied actions like reactions as you were saying. A lot of people think this was a sham from the beginning. No matter what the evidence says, that is not breaking through. I do think that was the problem. The president ought to also be audiocassette talking about those issues you mentioned. The black on black crime is one of the hugest issues out there. We have to take a break here. When we come back, there was other news this week. Chuck hagel is out as secretary of defense, but no one seems to want to replace him. What it means for the war against isis next. Now you can connect with Fox News Sunday<\/a> on facebook and twitter. Be sure to check out exclusive material online on facebook and share it with other fox fans. And tweet us using fns. Weigh in on the action every Fox News Sunday<\/a>. Last month chuck came to me to discuss the final quarter of my presidency, having determined it was on appropriate time for him to complete his service. President obama putting the best face on what from all accounts was the forced resignation of defense secretary chuck hagel. Bob, you have reported in depth about president obama and his National Security<\/a> team. Aside from the personal stuff, hagel didnt talk up in National Security<\/a> meetings, was does it tell us about obama and his policies in the last two years. First, it tells us the world has changed. Hagel was brought in as a soul mate for obama, somebody that wanted to get out of iraq and no new war and the situation has changed. And to shrink the military and not be one of the a cabinet members. Now we have the isis problem and the new war as the president s declared. And people keep saying no. This is a tough one for obama. Hes got to find an Authority Figure<\/a>. Hes got to find somebody who immediately people will say, ah, thats a leader. Wait. Some people first of all, weve seen a couple of the top choices say no. There are a lot of people who say he really wants to run it from the white house and the National Security<\/a> council and no Authority Figure<\/a> would want to take that job. Thats what hes got to do. Hes got to find one name thats been floated around is powell. There is an Authority Figure<\/a>. He was chairman of the joint chiefs. Secretary of state, somebody whos been the National Security<\/a> advisor. Somebody who could get up there and kind of hes friends with barack obama. You know, 77, thats the old 67. Thats what we keep telling ourselves. You wrote a column this week. You called obama a lousy boss. And anybody who doesnt want to be a door mat wouldnt take this job. Look at the way hagel was ousted. Blaming the obama Foreign Policy<\/a> failures on him. This is not an aberration. This is how this president rolls. They micromanage from the top and blame subordinates. Look at what happened with obamacare. The president was asked how were you so slow to recognize the isis threat. He blamed it on the director of his National Intelligence<\/a> agency. Why would anyone want to come in and serve as a doormat . One, do you think thats fair. Two, since we have a trial balloon here for powell, do you think thats a serious possibility . I think kim is onto something. There are two reasons that people close to her have told me she didnt want this job. Number one, she didnt want it if she was going to be restrained in the same way hagel was. Number two, she looked at this point and said, hey, maybe ill wait and see if i can get this job under hillary clinton. Take it on at a time the administration has more juice. Powells name have been out there. Thats problem will the not where their going to two on this. Administration Officials Say<\/a> theyre looking at jason son, the current Homeland Security<\/a> secretary. Hes well respected. The obvious downside is that you risk having his confirmation hearing turn into a debate over immigration which hes been deeply involved in. Why is it youve had gates, hagel, why is it that the secretaries of defense under this president have had such unhappy experiences . People at the pentagon says obama views the military very skeptically. He just doesnt take their recommendations with maybe the same weight as some of his predecesso predecessors. Not just the military. His whole defense leadership. He is skeptical of military options. Obama doesnt like war. Thats reasonable, but hes declared one essentially now, so hes in a tight spot. There was one other big Foreign Policy<\/a> development this week. That involved the wests Nuclear Talks<\/a> with iran. They didnt meet the deadline and decided to extend the talks for another seven months. Here is what secretary of state john kerry had to say about that. We would be fools to walk away from a situation where the breakout time has already been expanded rather than narrowed and where the world is safer because this program is in place. Bob, theyve already been talking for a year. Any reason to think that another seven months is going to break it . This could be the signature achievement for the president. I think theyre going to continue to try to work in that direction. But republicans are very critical of this. Its going to be hard to win widespread support. I think its coming back to bobs point. Youre going to have to work with a represent congress if youre the new secretary of defense. Youre going to have to get authorization for war and new troops. Thats an important part of what the white house is thinking through right now. His favorite republican after he endorsd barack obama. I think hed probably be a solid choice in that direction. I want to ask you, how worried are white House Republican<\/a> is the white house about the fact that next year when republicans take over the house and senate on this iran issue that they may decide to impose new sanctions to try to ratchet up the pressure on iran . Its a big concern for the white house. Even though the president could veto a sanctions bill, but they feel like even the act of Congress Passing<\/a> new sanctions could damage this extension that were seeing right now. They do feel like the response from capitol hill has been okay. Youve had some republicans come out calling for new sanctions. Youve had people like bob corker not necessarily calling for immediate sanctions. In about 15 seconds, what about the argument that if you put new sanctions on it, it increases the pressure . Thats the argument for people who want sanctions right now. We have iran at the table. Lets put sanctions on them and keep up the pressure. Thank you, panel. See you next subbed. Up next, our power player of the week. Once again, i dance with the turkeys. How could a luminous protein in jellyfish, impact Life Expectancy<\/a> in the u. S. , real estate in hong kong, and the optics industry in germany . At t. Rowe price, we understand the connections of a complex, global economy. Its just one reason over 70 of our mutual funds beat their 10year lipper average. T. Rowe price. Invest with confidence. Request a prospectus or summary prospectus with investment information, risks, fees and expenses to read and consider carefully before investing. Heres a holiday riddle. Who founded a huge tech company, created a successful cosmetic business and now raises turkeys like the indians did in heres our power player of the week. Farm with the land, farm with the seasons. Know your soil, know your rainfall, know your weather. Sandy lerner is talking about sustainable farming. Raising livestock and growing vegetables without the chemicals that are so common in what she calls factory farming. She took me out to see and, yes, to dance, with her 1,300 turkeys. Heritage breeds that trace back to the indians. Gobble, gobble, gobble, gobble. Lerner is mistress of air shire farm. 800 acres in virginia. As interesting as her business is how she got here. She fwru up on a farm in california, making enough from raising cattle to send herself to college. I learned to love work. Im happiest when im engaged and working and thinking and striving. She got into computers. In 1984, she and her husband started Cisco Systems<\/a> that found a way to Link Networks<\/a> of communities, the foundation of the internet. Six years later, Venture Capital<\/a> people were running cisco. We got taken to the cleaners. Part of that was, if you dont have an employment contract, i got fired by the same guy who fired steve jobs. Lerner had a second act. She started a Cosmetics Company<\/a> called urban decay with edgy colors for women like her. Its historically been people who had disposable income who made strides in farming. Look at George Washington<\/a> or thomas jefferson. She raises shires, war horses that go back centuries. Scotch high land cattle and those turkeys which she says taste better because of the lives they lead. How much does one cost as compared to a Grocery Store<\/a> . Theyre between i think theyre running this year about 160 to 200. At those prices, there are questions about how to make this kind of farming profitable. While lerner is determined to run a sound business, its not just about the bottom line. Theres a 40room mansion on the farm. Whats it like living there . I dont know. What do you mean . I live in a little log cabin and i love it. So just days before thanksgiving, we danced with the turkeys. She grew up on a family farm. And she wants to see those values live on. Im a cowgirl. I can tell what cows are thinking. Its very much my success as a farmer which is what George Washington<\/a> was. He wanted to be a really good farmer. I think ive become a good farmer. She sold over a thousand turkeys this thanksgiving and donated almost 12,000 pounds of turkey to local charities. Thats it for today. Have a great week and well see you next Fox News Sunday<\/a>. Discover the champion in you . applause well, god bless you. Its always a joy to come into your homes. If youre ever in our area please stop by and be a part of one of our services. These are the finest people in all of houston, texas right here at lakewood. cheering so, love to have you. Thanks for tuning in. applause thank you again for coming out today. I like to start with something funny. I heard about this 92yearold man. He wasnt feeling up to par so he went to the doctor. A few days later the doctor saw him out walking in the park with this beautiful young lady by his side. He seemed as happy as can be. 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