And republicans get the votes to pass their tax bill. This is going to be one of the great gifts to the middleincome people of this country. But can they keep their promise that the tax cuts may for themselves . And who gets hurt if they dont . Ill ask the white house director of legislative affairs, mark short. Joining me for insight and analysis are syndicated columnist george will, Helene Cooper of the the new york times, al cardenas, former head of the american conservative union, and former Obama Deputy Campaign manager Stephanie Cutter. Welcome to sunday. Its meet the press. Announcer from nbc news in washington, the longest running show in television history. This is meet the press with chuck todd. Good sunday morning. If you have the sense that history may be repeating itself, youre not alone. Back in 2010, there was a president with sinking Approval Ratings, an unpopular piece of legislation, obamacare, supported by just one party, and a republican, scott brown, won a senate race in cobalt blue massachusetts, suggesting a huge republican wave was coming. Well, it was. Republicans won 63 house seats in 2010 and 6 senate seats. Today we have a president with sinking Approval Ratings, an unpopular piece of legislation, the tax bill, supported by just one party, and a democrat, doug jones, won a senate race in ruby red alabama. Democrats are hoping to catch a wave and sit on top of the political world. In our brandnew nbc news wall street journal poll, it suggests that the surfs up. When asked who they would prefer to control congress, 50 said democrats, just 39 said republicans. You have to understand, our poll doesnt show this very often, this kind of spread. It was the first time the democrats have been at 50 in our poll with a doubledigit lead since september 2008, before the obamaled democratic wave of that year. The enthusiasm is all with the democrats as well. 59 of democrats tell us that they have a high level of interest in next years elections compared to just 49 for republicans. As for President Trump, his Approval Rating stands at 41 in our poll, versus 56 who say they disapprove of his performance. Thats slightly better for him than two months ago, when the results were 38 58 . Still that 41 is lower than any other president has scored in our poll at this stage of the presidency. And a year out from the 2018 midterms, the democrats do have reason to be optimistic. The people of alabama have spoken. They have said we [ cheers and applause ] a stunning Democratic Victory in a deep red state is the latest evidence that it may be time for republicans to panic. Challenged by the president to vote for roy moore get out and vote for roy moore. Many republicans stayed home. And in a state which elected mr. Trump last year with 62 of the vote, just 48 of voters this year said they approved of the president. They run, you know, as a party of trump and moore, thats, like i said, thats not a winning combination in 2018. Democrats see a wave of enthusiasm heading into 2018. I think that the energy going into 2018 has already begun. Reporter africanAmerican Voters were highly motivated on tuesday, making up a higher share of the electorate than in 2012. The last time president obama was on the ballot. Plus, the cultural revolution on the issue of Sexual Harassment and assault did not skip over alabama, contributing to a 16point advantage for doug jones with women, powered by 98 support among africanamerican women. And alabama once again exposed the deep divisions between the Republican Partys establishment and populist wings. I know were supposed to cheer for our side of the aisle, if you will, but im really, really happy with what happened. Republicans blame roy moore. This is a rebuke of a candidate. We had a blemished candidate. We had a flawed candidate. Alabamans didnt want somebody who dated 14yearold girls. But despite moores obvious flaws, democrats are sounding confident. The republican brand, even in deep red alabama, is positively toxic. One challenge for the party, within base voters are enthusiastic about impeachment, and democrats risk overplaying their hand. You dont think impeachment should be the primary message of the Democratic Party in 2018 . No, i do not. Democrats are defending 26 senate seats next year compared with just 8 for republicans. Ten of those democratic seats are in states mr. Trump won, including five where he won by at least 18 points, but democrats just won a senate seat in a state he carried by 28 points, and the party is becoming extraordinarily confident about its chances in the house. I think were going to win the senate and the house. Joining me now is one of those red state democrats that is on the ballot in 2018, senator joe manchin of West Virginia. Senator manchin, welcome back to the show, sir. Thanks for having me, chuck. Let me start with this. You are representing a state that President Trump won by 40 points. Youre up for reelection in 2018. Does doug jones 43 points, to be exact. There you go. Does doug jones victory in alabama, does that give you more confidence, or does that tell you, well, if i get to run against roy moore, i can win . Well, i feel good in my state. Ive been in my state all my life, born and raised here, and ive been in Public Office for quite some time in different capacities, most recently as governor before u. S. Senator. So, i think the people know me. My brand is very independent, and my brand is all about West Virginia. And you have to be, whether youre a democrat or republican, you have to be who you are for the state you represent, and i think people know that im going to put West Virginia and my country ahead of my party. What should Chuck Schumer and nancy pelosi take away from this . Theyre the titular heads of your party right now on both the house and the senate. What lesson do you want them to take away from doug jones in alabama . Well, let me just talk about washington democrats, which im not one i am not a washington democrat. I am a West Virginia democrat. And i believe that doug jones is an alabamian democrat. Washington democrats have to understand, were a little bit different. We do, and we are very much concerned about the social issues that have divided, and it seems like the democrats have abandoned, but were going to stay true to our roots and who we are. And as long as they understand that and leave us alone, let us do our job here, were going to be just fine. When we go to washington, its not whether Chuck Schumer, who i am the world of, a good guy and a nice person and a good friend of mine, but still, yet, chuck knows im going to be voting for West Virginia. He accepts that. He understands that. And he knows exactly who i am. And the people in West Virginia know who i am, so thats really what its about, and thats what doug jones needs to do. Look, youre not the only politician ive run into who says whoa, whoa, whoa, im not going to be sign of the national party. People know in my state and will judge me in my state, but you know politics are national these days, more than this the used to be. Let me ask you this about the national message. Theres a lot of base democrats that are fired up about the idea of impeaching President Trump. You have 58 House Democrats vote for that idea. You have a billionaire donor to the party who may want to run for the u. S. Senate talking about the idea. Do you think that that is good or bad for your chances at reelection in 2018, if impeachment is one of the National Messages of the Democratic Party . Heres the thing, chuck, that really bothers me more than anything. Because i am up for reelection in 2018, i guess people think in washington that im going to vote differently or ill be differently or ill have to cowtail, if you will, to what they think might be popular. I dont think impeachment is something we should be talking about. If facts come out, if these investigations go down that line, and if the rule of law is exercised and we see that there is reason to go in that direction, the house will make that decision first before its given to the senate, so im not going to waste my time or energy on that. I think its futile at this point in time. Theres so much that needs to be done for this country, for our military to be strong and defend us and for a tax reform, not just a tax cut, that works for all americans. Let me pick up on two points you just brought up. One, quickly, is the investigation. Youre on the senate intel committee. I know youre part of that investigation. Right. One of your colleagues, senator roy blunt, he said the following about the bob mueller issues right now. I am dhaernd he couldnt put a Team Together that wasnt so overwhelmingly on one side of the ideological spectrum. But maybe even somebody as capable and experienced as mueller can learn a lesson from this. Do you believe muellers investigation has been compromised, pure and simple . Not i do not at all believe that mr. Muellers has been compromised, or his investigation. I think hes beyond reproach. I think anybody whos ever worked with him, who have watched him operate for the last how many years, under democrats and republicans, they even asked him to stay on after the bush administration. I think that he is the person, the right person, that when he finishes his investigation, that were going to have confidence it was done in a fair and balanced way. I truly believe that, and im not led to believe that anybody on the Intelligence Committee thinks that he would not be the right person, theres anybody better than him. Have you been troubled at all of what youve seen come out of the selective leaking of these texts that have come out of the Justice Department regarding these fbi agents . Yeah, that bothers you, but these are human beings, too, i understand on both sides, but the bottom line is that mr. Mueller got rid of the people immediately as soon as he was made aware of them, and thats not going to impede his investigation, and i think in a fair and unbiased way. Let me pick up on taxes. It was interesting to me that you said you wanted to work on tax reform instead of just tax cuts. I take it thats a little subtle jab at this tax bill. You didnt vote for it, but you also claimed this is not the bill President Trump wanted. Thats not what hes saying. He seems to be really excited about this bill. How did you get cut out of this . I think a lot of us expected you to be more involved in this process. I wanted to be more involved. First of all, i thanked the president for inviting me to the white house. I was there for lunch. I was there for a dinner. We spoke about really reform, such as what Ronald Reagan did in the 1986. It was total reform. Or what Erskine Bowles and al simpson recommended in bowles simpson. That was reform. And the president told me, joe, this will not be a tax cut for the rich like me. And i said, mr. President , thats good. He said its going to be for the average working person whos got left behind. I said, thats great well, i really believed that the president wanted to work in a bibipartisan way. Mark short and i have been talking. We exchanged ideas back and forth. I gave them a whole litany of things that i thought ten or more democrats would vote for, to have it 60 or 65 votes. I really believe is possible if you had regular order. Once Mitch Mcconnell has decided that 51 votes was all that was needed and theyre all going to be republicans and make it political, thats exactly what happened. All right, so let me clarify this this is not a reform. This is a tax cut. Let me clarify, you dont hold the president responsible for this, you hold Mitch Mcconnell responsible for this tax bill . I think Mitch Mcconnell basically told the president , we can do this under a budget reconciliation, which is a budget gimmick. He passed a budget with 500 billion of deficit going in. So, he had 1. 5 trillion of deficit to work with and giveaways tax cuts and everything else, rather than revenueneutral, which is what Ronald Reagan did, which is what bowles and simpson did, which is what i wanted to do and many republicans kind of wanted to do, i thought, but thats not what we ended up with. And chuck, the only thing about it, when you look in 86, Ronald Reagan did it and did it in a way that everyone was involved and got bipartisan support. Right. George bush number one had to pay the price for that, because he saw that we had an exploding debt that wasnt supposed to have happened, but it did, and he had to make adjustments for our country, which he did and sacrificed his own political career and reelection as president. This is what were dealing with. And im saying, anybody that would have gone, chuck, to the allmember hearing that we had last thursday, the thursday before, and heard the readiness of our military, the need that they have, and can vote with a clear conscience this is the right thing for america, our children and our country all right. They were at a different meeting than i was at. Senator manchin, unfortunately, ive got leave it there, democrat from West Virginia. Thanks for coming on. Appreciate you sharing your views. Well, thank you. Appreciate it. You got it. Joining me now is republican Governor John Kasich of ohio. Governor kasich, welcome back to meet the press. Thanks, chuck. All right, i will start where i ended there with senator manch manchin, which is on the tax bill. Right. But id like you to answer the question from the point of view of a governor whos got your own fiscal issues to deal with. Is this tax bill good for the state of ohio . Yeah, i think chuck, heres whats in that bill. And i know this has been characterized in many different ways that i dont happen to agree with. Look, the Corporate Tax rate in our country was way too high, one of the highest in the world. We needed to bring that down so that companies are going to invest in america and not invest overseas. Secondly, they have a provision in there i dont know all the details of it that if you made money overseas, you can bring your money back here. Youre going to be able to repatriate that money, which means thats more money, hopefully, for investment. Small businesses are given a break, something i did in ohio, which is why were up about 500,000 jobs here in the state since ive been governor. Look, do i think they could have done better for the middle class . I do. Do i think they could have done better for the working poor . I mean, rubio tried to get something. He made some progress. But they could have, you know, increased the rates a little bit for big business. It wouldnt have mattered a little bit, and given more relief out, so why do you think they didnt . Why do you think they didnt . Is it the lack of inclusion of democrats in there and a lack of need for compromise . Well, yeah, let me say what manchin said is true, because i was there in 1986. It wasnt just Ronald Reagan, it was senator bradley, it was senat senator pacuin. It was a special time in 1986 because Ronald Reagan was special, too. And it was tough. In the end, because they made drastic changes in the code, and i remember the Real Estate Industry went crazy, the democrat and republican senators stood on the edge of the cliff and just like Butch Cassidy and the sundance kid, they held hands and they jumped. And you know what, we got great progress. We got a cleanedup code and lower rates. But remember, at that point in time, the top rate was 70 . Its not that today. But look, i do believe that cutting taxes makes sense. My concern about this bill is the debt. Yep. And they did not do enough to be able to cover this bills not going to pay for itself. Everybody knows that. So, at the end, chuck, heres the problem, is debt gets higher and higher and higher, it slows the economy down. So when you cut taxes to provide more Economic Growth and at the same time, you drive up the debt, they kind of work in opposite of one another and you dont get the and thats why they have to look at the savings. You dont wind up getting the surge you once hoped for. I want to talk about the state of the Republican Party, but also the state of your relationship with the Republican Party. Heres montage of various things youve said this year about your relationship with this version of the Republican PartyMerry Christmas exactly. Can you offer yourself as an alternative as a thirdparty candidate . Very chris, im not doing anything now to plan, other than to have an organization at what point do you think you wont be able to change your party . I never give up, chuck. If the party cant be fixed, jake, then im not going to be able to support the party, period. Well, here we are in december. Yeah. Is the party in a better place than it was at the start of this year or in a worse place, and where are you . Are you prouder to be a republican today than you were at the start of this year . Well, im always proud to be a republican, but the party is my vehicle, never been my master. Chuck, when you look at alabama, theres some very interesting things. 20,000 they think 20,000 republicans voted for somebody that