Raise your hand now if you wont make that pledge tonight. Mr. Trump . Analysis from our sunday group on the trump factor, winners and losers and the new shape of the republican race. All right now on Fox News Sunday. Hello again from fox news in washington. The sparks are still flying in the wake of the big fox news debate that 24 Million People tuned into see. Front runner donald trump is complaining about unfair treatment by the moderators including me and after trumps personal comments about my colleague, megyn kelly, the conservative group red state rescinded its invitation for him to speak at an event this weekend. The other top story is Carly Fiorina who many declare the big winner after her standout performance during the early debate and i spoke with her earlier. Welcome back to Fox News Sunday. Thank you so much for having me back, chris. The consensus is you had a big night in cleveland on thursday. I know its still early, but have you sensed a bump in support, a bump in money, and if so, how are you going to capitalize on it . I do think it was a big night for me because going into that debate, only 40 of republicans had heard my name believe it or not. I had extremely low name i. D. And so i think for many people this was the first time they saw, wow, theres another woman running for president and shes actually pretty good. So we certainly have seen an uptick in financial support. Weve seen an uptick in support generally and so its very exciting. Im going to keep staying out there and talking to as many voters as i can about the issues i think our nation faces at this pivotal time and why i can win the job and why i can do the job. There is a reason that you were on the early 5 00 p. M. Debate and well put up the latest real clear politics average of National Polls and it shows that you were tied for 13th at 1. 3 and even in the early states where you campaigned a lot, iowa and new hampshire, you were at 2 . Its fair to say you have stood out at candidate forums and various events before but it hasnt translated into voter support. Why is this going to be different . I disagree with the premise of your question. I start eed my campaign on may h from a standing point where no one recognized my name. If you look at a number of state polls, weve been in the top ten in state polls but it hadnt yet translated into top ten in National Polls. I would also remind you that at this time in previous president ial elections, the polls, pundits and money said that jimmy carter couldnt win, Ronald Reagan couldnt win, bill clinton couldnt win and barack obama couldnt win. This race has just gotten started. Game on. You are one of the few candidates in the republican field who is not afraid to take on donald trump. What do you think of the decision of the conservative group red state to disinvite him from its gathering this weekend in atlanta . You know, president ial campaigns are about watching someone under pressure and over time. And so the debate that we were just talking about, you asked some tough questions, too. You talked to donald trump about his record of bankruptcy. I didnt notice donald trump insulting you for 24 hours. Theres no excuse for this. No excuse for going after megyn kelly . No. Its her job to ask tough questions. Its your job to ask tough questions. Its the candidates job to answer those questions however they see fit. During your debate, you also talked about donald trump. Heres what you had to say. Since hes changed his mind on amnesty, on health care and on abortion, i would just ask what are principles by which he will govern. What is your message to the millions of people and you know there are millions of people out there who like donald trump. You know, ive said many times that donald trump taps into an anger. An anger with corruption of the federal government and the professional Political Class. I agree with that anger. Its why im running for president. Honestly, no matter your issue, no matter your cause or festering problem you hoped would be resolved by now, the Political Class has failed you. I understand that. And i firmly believe that we need a different kind of leadership now in the oval office that will actually challenge the status quo and get something done. Why are you the better person to do that than trump . You dont get things done by insulting everyone. I have a track record of getting things done, of challenging the status quo, of leading toward results. I also understand how the economy works, how the world works and whos in it. How bureaucracies work and how Technology Works and how it can be used and how its being used against us as a weapon. I want to pick up on that in a moment. You have also gone after Hillary Clinton throughout your campaign and once again in cleveland on thursday. Here you are. Hillary clinton lies about benghazi, she lies about emails. Shes still defending planned parenthood and shes still her partys front runner. Why are you the best candidate to take on Hillary Clinton . Well, i think first of all, i will and have thrown every punch as i also said on thursday night. This is going to be a fight in 2016 between conservatism and a Democrat Party undermining the character of this nation. We have to throw every punch we have. And the truth is Hillary Clinton lacks a track record of accomplishment. She lacks a track record of leadership. And she is not trustworthy. Of course with more visibility comes more scrutiny and i dont think it was any surprise that the morning after your performance in the debate on thursday, the chairwoman of the Democratic National committee, Debbie Wassermanschultz went after you. Here she is. Whats impressive about a woman who nearly drove a fortune 500 company into the ground and fired 30,000 people when she was ceo, whose stock dropped by 50 when she was head of the company and recovered after she was fired by 10 . You know if you end up as republican nominee, democrats will put that in every ad. She fired 30,000 people. Its exactly the kind of thing that sunk mitt romney. Yep. And you know, im flattered that the head of dnc would come after me. I guess that means were gaining traction here. Heres the facts. I let Hewlett Packard through a very difficult time. The dotcom bust, worst recession in 25 years. I would remind Debbie Wassermanschultz it has taken the nasdaq 15 years to recover. Sometimes in tough times, tough calls are necessary. However, we also took a company from 44 billion to almost 90 million and quadrupled its growth rate and wei was fired because when you challenge the status quo, which is what leadership is about, you make enemies. Steve jobs was fired. Oprah winfrey was fired. Walt disney was fired. Mike bloomberg was fired. I feel like im in good company. We need somebody to challenge status quo of washington, d. C. And get something done. As a political reality because you know theyll find as they did with mitt romney, theyll find that poor unfortunate person who says that Carly Fiorina went on and i lost my job. How are you going to be able to make that case and break through to voters in a way that mitt romney didnt . There are lots of politicians who run for office and lost, too. That doesnt mean that all politicians lose. Not all Business People are the same. What i would argue is that there are a lot of people who understand as chief executive theres nothing harder than saying to someone we dont have a job for you anymore. Its also true that the vast majority of americans know that in tough times sometimes tough decisions have to be made. What theyre frustrated by is the federal government never makes a tough decision. We have never succeeded in shrinking the size of government. Let me tell you Something Else. We have a bunch of baby boomers who are going to retire out of the federal government over the next five to six years. I will not replace a single one. We need to actually get about the business of reducing the size, the power, the cost, complexity and corruption of this federal government. Okay. I want to pick up exactly on that issue, which is your experience as a ceo. What would president fiorina do to jumpstart this economy and be specific. First, we have to remember what the engine of Economic Growth is in this nation. You know what it is . Small businesses. Family owned businesses. Community based businesses. I started out in a nineperson Real Estate Firm typing and filing. Its how most people start. Twothirds of the new jobs are created by Small Businesses. Have of the americans are employed by Small Businesses. Were crushing them. Were destroying more than were creating. Thats why we have to roll back this Regulatory Burden and take a 75page tax code and make it three pages because guess what . When you have a big costly complicated government, only the big, the powerful, wealthy and well connected can deal with it. Its called crony capitalism. Its why we must reduce the size of government. We have to get Small Businesses up and growing again. To do so, we must reduce the power, the scope, the complexity of government. What would you do about taxes . Are you going to cut corporate taxes or cut taxes on the higher income people and if you do or if youre going to campaign on that, you know that Hillary Clinton will say shrunken economics. We have a 75,000page tax code. That favors the wealthy and big and well connected because they can hire accountants and lobbyists to make that complexly work for them. My blueprint, lower every rate and close every loophole. Maybe theres one or two loopholes that really help the middle class but most of these deductions and loopholes and complexities actually benefit the wealthy, the powerful, the well connected. Our tax code isnt competitive anymore. Its ridiculous that we have the highest tax code in the world. Tax rate in the world when were trying to attract jobs here. Lower every rate, close every loophole. When Hillary Clinton says, yeah, and rich will make out like bandits. What i would point out to Hillary Clinton is every one of the policies that shes currently pursuing make income inequality worse. Exhibit a, income inequality under the Obama Administration. Exhibit b, every liberal state in this nation. I spent 12 years in the state of california. A state thats ruled by liberals for a long time. You have 130 billionaires. The highest poverty rates in the nation. The exodus of middle class and destruction of industry after industry. Income inequality is worse under progressive policies because progressive policies favor wealthy, well connected, big and powerful. Whats your plan now . How do you seize this moment . I think a lot of people are giving you either a second look or as you say some of them a first look. How do you seize this moment and become a top tier candidate . Honestly, im going to keep what im doing. I think im working really hard. Many people tell us were outworking every campaign out there. Im about to leave for south carolina. Were going to talk to as many people as we can through every medium there is. I will continue to do what ive done from day one. Ill answer any question. Ill talk to anyone. Im not afraid to talk about anything. The more people get to know me, the more people support me. Thats what were going to keep doing. I do believe this is a pivotal time in our nations history. Im running for president because i think if we do not win in 2016, were going to reach a point from which we may not be able to recover. I think its vital that we demonstrate leadership in the world once again. I think its vital that we get this economy going and growing. I think its vital that we finally begin to reduce the size and power and corruption of the federal government. Thank you. Thanks for coming in. Safe travels in those campaign appearances. Thank you. Up next, senator rand paul tangled with trump and confronted Chris Christie on the debate stage. Well ask the president ial candidate how its shaking out now back on the campaign trail. Senator rand paul says hes a different kind of republican and at the fox news debate he aired those differences with donald trump and new jersey governor Chris Christie. Hows that working out for him . Senator paul joins us now. Senator, we talked on the Oreilly Factor on friday and you said one of the reasons you were so combative in the debate is you are lagging a bit in the polls. Its only been a couple days since then but hows it paid off . Our number of contributors has gone up. We have well over 100,000 contributors. 96 give under 100. We think we excited our base. One of the things that really shows is that when you poll me head to head with clinton, i lead her in five states won by president obama. Its interesting to contrast that with donald trump who actually is 16 points behind clinton so my suggestion is next time we do a debate, maybe that ought to be a poll we ought to look at in calculating who we talk to. All right. You brought up trump. Lets talk about him. You had a kind of Quick Exchange with him right off the bat when he refused to pledge that he would support the eventual republican nominee. You came in cold. Here it is. Okay. This is whats wrong. He buys himself politicians of all stripes. Hes already look, hes already hedging his bet on the clintons, okay. I want to go past that moment and ask you big picture. Senator, what do you think of donald trump . Well, i dont think we should reward vulgarity. I dont think vulgarity equates to insight. Because you can call someone stupid or fat, is that really what were going to make the decision on for who is going to be our nominee . I came out of the Tea Party Movement. Part of the Tea Party Movement is we were upset with fake conservatives and republicans who werent conservative. Republicans for obamacare and republicans for the bank bailouts. Thats donald trump. Hes been for all of these liberal policies and now because he can stand up and say vulgar things and hes as truth teller. The truth is what is he for . I have no idea whether hes conservative. He really could be a liberal for all im concerned. I have no idea what his real philosophy is other than hes for promoting himself. Then there was that Heated Exchange with governor Chris Christie about government surveillance. Heres a taste of that. Senator, you know, when you sit in a subcommittee just blowing hot air about this, you can say things like that. I dont trust president obama with our records. I know you gave him a big hug and if you want to give him a big hug again, go right ahead. Senator, i want to delve down into this issue. You say you want to collect records about the terrorists and not about innocent americans but Law Enforcement experts say that thats naive. They say you cant connect the dots to find somebody unless you have the dots. Well, you know, the truth of the matter is every time weve been attacked here on the homeland, we have had evidence in advance. We had evidence in advance on the boston bomber, the russians tipped us off. We should have known he went back to chechnya and we didnt do a good job knowing his whereabouts. The garland shooter recently that traveled from arizona, we had evidence in advance. The mass murderer at ft. Hood, we had evidence for years that he was radicalized and Political Correctness we kept advances him in the military because people were afraid to stand up and say enough is enough. So i dont think theres any instance in which we found that the indiscriminate bulk collection of records helped us. Three independent commissions looked at this. Every one said that no terrorist has been caught through bulk collection. I want more individualized investigation. The Fourth Amendment says you can collect records, you just have to name the target, have some suspicion, not even proof but suspicion that you present to a judge and a judges signature. I dont want the blanket surveillance of all americans. Im not willing to give up on the bill of rights in order to say i can feel more safe. Weve been doing this. Actually weve been attacked despite collection of all these bulk records. There are a lot of respected people, maybe you wouldnt say theyre respected, general michael hayden, former head of the cia, dianne feinstein, the ranking democrat, former chairman of senate intelligence, that says that this bulk collection has worked and has protected us. Let me give you a specific example. This is one that Law Enforcement officials say. If we suddenly discover a terrorist phone number being used out of pakistan and we want to go back and find out who that person has been talking to, if we havent been collecting the records, how do we go back and trace who that terrorist on that cell phone number has been calling over the last six months . Well, what youre describing is actually an instance in which we do have specific information and we would write that down and we would say we have suspicion and i would sign the warrant for that. Then you get the information. Wait, sir. The records are out there the point is if we havent been collecting the records along the whole time when we discovered today that theres a bad guy out there using a phone call, how do we trace who he called six months ago. The records are kept by the phone company and typically are kept for 18 months or more. Theres no evidence that any of has worked is the most important thing to understand. Weve been doing this for ten years. No