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And all equally driven by the same impulse, which is to cast doubt on the validity of the system so that when the system turns against him if it does turn against him, when he loses an election, when he is standing for election, he will have laid the predicate down to say the system was rigged, somehow this was stolen from me. that is what it's all been about from the beginning in 2016 all the way through to now, is that moment he knows is coming, when he's going to lose a vote and he's going to say, well, i've been telling you for the last three years that this whole system is rife with fraud...

Been telling you for the last three years that this whole system is rife with fraud and now he's making up increasingly kind of absurd versions of that. >> and counselor, you get us of course to roger stone. this will make maybe the 15th conversation you and i have had about roger stone. does this get us where you thought we were headed, especially this aspect that he may be affecting witnesses? >> right. so we have talked a lot about stone. i think what's new here is first of all this idea that -- not idea. the reporting that mueller is looking at stone for intimidating witnesses. because two...

He's going to say, well, i've been telling you for the last three years that this whole system is rife with fraud and now he's making up increasingly kind of absurd versions of that. >> and counselor, you get us of course to roger stone. this will make maybe the 15th conversation you and i have had about roger stone. does this get us where you thought we were headed, especially this aspect that he may be affecting witnesses? >> right. so we have talked a lot about stone. i think what's new here is first of all this idea that -- not idea. the reporting that mueller is looking at stone for intim...