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>> by definition this new hybrid system will result in the less overall revenue. he would end taxation to social security income. and pledges to raise social security to match the longer life span. all in all, they say flax tax is attractive in a slow economy. >> more efficient tax and add a lot to growth and reduce unemployment. >> there is a hunger for big policy changes. whatever people think of the perry plan it's dramatic. >> bret: we will get former utah governor jon huntsman reaction to the plan and his own plan on the center seat segment. he will take questions from the panel.

Also federal civilian hiring salaries frozen. then he talks about entitlement reform; specifically, social security. setting up retirement account for younger workers. those are the bullet points quickly. we are starting the panel earlier to make room for center seat segment. steve hayes, "weekly standard." a.b. stoddard, associate editor of the hill. syndicated columnist charles krauthammer. steve, thoughts on the plan and the roll back? >> very strong. i like it a lot. it has a lot of aspects to it. i like the 20% tax. there have been complaints that it's too complicated that phase in, opt i...

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Capital gain, income. business and corporation and zero out of state tax. >> bret: so he is betting on big growth to make up difference in revenue. >> but you have to show me numbers. yes. there will be some, you get some extra revenue from the growth. if you start with $1.3 trillion deficit and cut all the five major category of taxes, you've got to show me where the cuts will be. i'm not sure he has done that. >> but you are eliminating loopholes, corporate loophole and the personal loophole and you balance the budget by 2020 built in the plan. >> you say you are, in if plan it's an amendmen...