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Life, and some people say he lied and some people say he didn't lie. i mean, really it turned out maybe he didn't lie. >> maybe he didn't lie. that's his endorsement. these guys, if you stand up for this guy, you're a great man. >> and dan mcgahn was praised for not being a rat like john dean. i just love the michael flynn one. some people say he lied, michael flynn said he lied, the white house said he lied, his plea agreement says he lied. >> but he was open mined. so he gives the champ remains the champ. >> right. at the end of the day i may support you when it's convenient for me, but paul...