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>> to help understand the implications of all this pardon talk, i'm joined by former u.s. acerny for the southern district and former white house counsel for president barack obama a and -- there seems to be a consensus that despite whatever article powers, can't exchange them for favors to cover opcrime. that we're agreed on, pretty much? >> i think we're all agreed on. the problem is we're in completely unchartered waters. the pardon authority has typically been used after is someone has been convicted of a crime when all the facts are known and here we have the opposite. we have the pardon ...

Drama on capitol hill. is this a sign of just how ugly it's getting in d.c.? >> and mr. trump is artie called cerny live a hit job. one of his biggest critics one in. we'll see if rosie o'donnell is stephen bannon. >> "outnumbered," top of the hour. see you then. >> jenna: a new proposal from conservatives. two former secretaries of state come up with their own plan calling for a carbon task. george schultz and james baker writing "a dividends policy could spur larger reductions then all of president obama's climate policies."