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Frustration is far and away from ill will, hatred, spite necessary for second degree. frustration is one thing, the necessary element for second degree murder, that ill will, spite and hatred which you know from listening to the judgment of the acquittal arguments, has specific connotation to it, and has to have specific fact. somebody picking up somebody in a more pit over the head and throwing them on the ground that's not ill will and hatred, someone saying to someone, f-ing punks, may be frustration, may be some street talk, but is nowhere near second degree murder, and with the case being...

He was frustrated, that frustration is far and away from ill will, hatred, spite necessary for second degree. frustration is one thing, the necessary element for second degree murder, that ill will, spite and hatred which you know from listening to the judgment of the acquittal arguments, has specific connotation to it, and has to have specific fact. somebody picking up somebody in a more pit over the head and throwing them on the ground that's not ill will and hatred, someone saying to someone, f-ing punks, may be frustration, may be some street talk, but is nowhere near second degree murder,...

Frustration is far and away from ill will, hatred, spite necessary for second degree. frustration is one thing, the necessary element for second degree murder, that ill will, spite and hatred which you know from listening to the judgment of the acquittal arguments, has specific connotation to it, and has to have specific fact. somebody picking up somebody in a more pit over the head and throwing them on the ground that's not ill will and hatred, someone saying to someone, f-ing punks, may be frustration, may be some street talk, but is nowhere near second degree murder, and with the case being...

Remember, as an aside, there are not a lot of cases about judgments of acquittal in self-defense cases after 2006. the reason why is, of course, we now have self-defense immunity hearings as an alternative to judgment of acquittal arguments in a trial. we did not avail ourselves of that pretrial determination of immunity. so many other people in most of the other case law have so you'll see a significant number of drop offs in joa appellate case law after 2006 on a self-defense issue because, as you would imagine, most of them exist pretrial. they're addressed pretrial. we had made the volunta...

Acquittal and self-defense cases after 2006. the reason why is, of course, we now have self-defense immunity hearings as an alternative to judgment of acquittal arguments in a trial. we did not avail ourselves of that pretrial determination of immunity. so many other people in most of the other caseload, case law, have. so you'll see a significant dropoff in the number of joa arguments or joa call it case law after 2006 on a self-defense issue. because, as you would imagine, most of them exist pretrial, they're addressed pretrial. we have made the voluntary decision not to do that. but jenkins...