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Really aren't there. >> finally, sir, let me get your thoughts. the democrats on the house side, do you tell them that they should, in fact, pursue court battles to get people like mike pompeo, mick mulvaney, john bolton to come forward in front of their panel? >> i'm not going to say whether they should vote on articles of impeachment. i will be act iing as a juror i the senate if those articles do, in fact, come over. certainly the testimony that i've seen and that the american people have seen is very, very damaging, and the fact that the administration is unwilling to provide documents tel...

Were in communication to some degree about wikileaks that was act iing as an agent. i think the democrats probably expand on it. it is probably the single most important thing that came out of it and the financial issues about donald trump who has never been any verifiable evidence that he has been a billionaire. he grubs for money in a way that people that spend a lot of cash do, but not the way billionaires act. >> also he never expected to win. it was a marketing opportunity for him. he said it would be the greatest infomercial of all time. >> no doubt he saw it as marketing. when did he st...

I'm trying to make a point. >> fair point. >> you said this on this thing to other people has not been fair so let's not go there. >> moving on to matthew whitaker and whether or not -- >> my point is this. it doesn't matter who started this completely insane process we're in of complete dysfunction, where grown people are saying i will not come and talk to you unless you do it my way. if he wants to make the point is all i'm saying, let him come. he is a formidable presence. he is a tough guy. make that point to the american people. >> why a subpoena, though? >> chairman nadler is the chairma...

Where you have some -- really some see-through capability. if you don't have some see through it's a problem. take a look up here. former act iing director. john, we're trying to listen in as best we could to what the president was discussing, holes in fences, want a see-through wall. i hear your laster. tell me why you're laughing. >> i never heard we need a wall.

Ambassador romer still with me, along with phil mudd. we can't sit here and read all the tea leaves. i certainly don't have all the answers. when it comes to the timing, here you have yesterday rex tillerson, the sole voice who broke with the white house, made it clear he believed it was russia behind that nerve gas attack with that former russian spy and his daughter over in the uk. do you have any idea if -- do you think that that was out of, at all, frustration with the white house and the refusal to ever criticize russia? will we ever know? >> i don't think we'll ever know, brooke. i do th...