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Eequivalence? >> i think in the case of trump he doesn't want to take responsibility for the fact that he is -- that his rhetoric is incredibly divisive and seems to be inspiring right wing extremists. and you think about what happened in charlottesville, he couldn't get himself to actually denounce these people that were involved in this because he didn't want to do anything that would upset his base. and he hasn't really owned up to the fact that the type of rhetoric that he uses, the way that he almost supports violence against the press and encourages -- >> the president does seem to suppo...

>> well, absolutely. at the very beginning, we needed pakistan in order to attack afghanistan. this is probably the only -- one of the only ways we had to get into afghanistan, and the isi, at the time, we have to remember that the isi's connection with the jihadi types go back to early '80s, when the isi was entrusted to funnel the money, to funnel the support and to facilitating the training for mujahadin against the soviets. that relationship continues, and many people in pakistan and among the isi believe that the non-state actor types, the haqqani network, the taliban, can be an important...

At the very beginning, we needed pakistan in order to attack afghanistan. this is probably the only -- one of the only ways we had to get into afghanistan, and the isi, at the time, we have to remember that the isi's connection with the jihadi types go back to early '80s, when the isi wasn't trusted to funnel the money, to funnel the support and to facilitating the training for mujahadin against the soviets. that relationship continues, and many people in pakistan and against the isi believe that the non-state actor types, the hakani network, the taliban can be an important card in establishin...