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The way it has been done? what would they say? >> they've got problems. they've got a few members who want to cut spending but a lot who want to spend more. they can't get 218 votes to pass a budget that's why they don't have one. >> greta: there's been a recent cbo report that the health care federal legislation is going to cost more than we've been told. i suppose you are not particularly surprised. >> i'm not at all surprised. not just the 115 billion dollars that the congressional budget office says this bill is going to cost more than what the president said it was. it is also the secreta...

Re-election this year, could you survive given the political climate in utah's republican party right now? >> well, we're different people. i felt very badly for senator bennett because he's a pine senator with a great ability. and would have become the republican leader on the banking committee within a couple of years and high up on the appropriations committee. those are things that take years and years to do. fortunately the two that are left to run off in a primary are both excellent individuals but going to be starting all over again. but they're excellent. either one you have them would...

We aren't just actuaries or bean counters, we have to be looking at what is the impact. >> greta: visionaries in some way. >> what are we visioning just cutting the deficit is it just about numbers? or what is the impact that is our decisions would have on ordinary people. it is easy to talk about slashing social security or medicare, the average older american makes $18,000 a year. >> greta: the democratic party doesn't even have a budget now from which we can work in terms to figure out what we should slash or save or do anything. all these economic discussions to me, is as an outside sider ...

We aren't just actuaries or bean counters, we have to be looking at what is the impact. >> greta: visionaries in some way. >> what are we visioning just cutting the deficit is it just about numbers? or what is the impact that is our decisions would have on ordinary people. it is easy to talk about slashing social security or medicare, the average older american makes $18,000 a year. >> greta: the democratic party doesn't even have a budget now from which we can work in terms to figure out what we should slash or save or do anything. all these economic discussions to me, is as an outside sider ...

Somebody said they are stalking horses for taxes. i'm a stalking horse for my grandchildren. this is not what about george w. or even what this president did. this is a situation where i hope and my naive green pea way that we can get all 18 of these fine people to say this is where we are. this is where we are. we are using only the actuaries of social security. we are using only the actuaries of healthcare. we are using only cbo figures. we are not going to go by our own figures. we are not going to say we are going grow our way out of this. we could have double growth for 30 years and never...