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Prospect of spending the rest of his life there if mueller got what he wanted. it's not over. it will be a separate sentence next week in washington but it was an eye popper. let's start with this and bring in robert ray. good to see you. we have spoken before. i have to tell you not only did they investigate these years ago and come up empty. i don't know that this is going to stick. it stuck. what is the sentence mean to you? >> context is necessary. remember, >> it wasn't that long agatha a four year sentence was thought to be pretty harsh. in connection with with a bank fraud case. harsh a...

Special counsel. look it's a surprise. the almost 70-year-old faced the prospect of spending the rest of his life there if mueller got what he wanted. it's not over. it will be a separate sentence next week in washington but it was an eye popper. >> it wasn't that long agatha a four year sentence was thought to be pretty harsh. harsh and significant. what federal judges have questioned in the wake of the financial crisis is the run up in the sentencing guidelines with regard to the loss