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Why? because interest rates were artificially low. it made sense for companies to borrow, accumulate cash and pay back and share. you need that incentive to go down. secondly, you need them to have more confidence about aggregate demand. >> greg, did you have trouble finding risks? what did you think about the forecasts about his risks to the economy? >> i agree. i would say you and your invest ors would make a resolution to not get faked out by washington. we come to the precipice and we fan and don't go over the cliff. there will not be a government shutdown in january. not a debt ceiling cr...

Keith ellison, the congressman's point, which i agree with, there is some interests keeping unemployment high. >> yeah, i don't think that's quite right. the idea is basically, you know, you keep unemployment high to keep labor costs down, but the problem is the strategy is to keep unemployment high, also keep economic growth weak, so it's a hugely negative game, where you're saying we're going to keep a weak economy so we can depress wages and take a larger share as corporate profits. that doesn't make sense if you own a business or are a rich guy. it makes much more sense to look at this as ...

>> yeah, i don't think that's quite right. the idea is basically, you know, you keep unemployment high to keep labor costs down, but the problem is the strategy is to keep unemployment high, also keep economic growth weak, so it's a hugely negative game, where you're saying we're going to keep a weak economy so we can depress wages and take a larger share as corporate profits. that doesn't make sense if you own a business or are a rich guy. it makes much more sense to look at this as an error. we've been in a situation for years, we have aggregate demand that's too weak. >> people aren't buyin...

Questions, but then they start to detract from the demand, napped, demand, spend, spend, spend, which is how we should get out of the recovery. so are we underinvesting in education and infrastructure? an interesting question, but they're not core to what needs to be done to get back to default. >> but as you say spend, spend, spend, and you have all this debt that exists, people can't spend, spend, spend. with the unemployment rates, with the slow level of growth, you really cannot spend, spend, spend. you think about people who are in economic distress to spend and the way that we advertise,...

Around 40%, 40, 50 years ago, mid single digits right now. what the stock market is looking at, is the government is so much in gridlock. look, the democrats hated bush tax cuts and they made them permanent and they continued the biggest stimulus program in the history of mankind, 40 cents of every day dollar we don't have. the stock market looks at that, look, free government money everywhere, low taxes, let's party and that's what the market's doing. there's no one in charge in washington d.c. absolutely no one. >> brenda: and wall street likes that. >> yes. >> brenda: caroline, you want to ...