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One of the many puzzling ags pekts to come of the impeachment process involves two of the president's biggest defenders. his personal lawyer, rudy giuliani and devin nunes. instead of just defending the president's actions regarding ukraine, they're now also defending their own voinvolveme with the country. we have an msnbc contributor with us. welcome to you. betsy, president trump says rudy giuliani will deliver a report to congress with information that the former mayor found while on his latest trip to ukraine. a, can he do this, or is this a diversion? >> it's lawful for american citizens...

He has been on all sides of this throughout which is customary. he allows himself to pick whatever version he wants as the events go. they have just been in reaction mode this whole time. the president is doing the only thing he wants how to do which is call a million different reporters and say different things and see what stands. they are from da i to day at odds. >> that's a great point. he found the initial explanation credible. >> right. and honestly very little has changed in terms of intelligence that they have had. it has nothing to do with what was said publicly, but one other point ...