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Russian aggression and war making. and no president has ever made the choice to send pilots into air combat against russian pilots in the middle of a hot war. and so, so far, no one who is urging president biden to do that has explained how we can be certain that the most unpredictable russian leader of the nuclear age would not go nuclear. i tom because will join us next, his latest piece from the atlantic is about the risk of trying to impose a no fly zone in ukraine. and the agonies we will all witness without a no fly zone in ukraine. in ukraine in ukraine making spaghetti... but i didn't ...

Over the power they might try to starve the ukrainian population of energy in order to force them to submit. i would say finally the danger here is if they start to lose this war or if they are and to stay they are just in it to destroy, to leave ukraine ms, they could certainly do damage to this energy facilities. then again it raises the issue, do they know what they are doing? so far they have not instilled a lot of confidence. if they began trying to disable nuclear power plants on their way out or an order rendered them useless i don't trust them to do in a way that is safe. >> the reason...

Russian aggression and war making. and no president has ever made the choice to send pilots into air combat against russian pilots in the middle of a hot war. and so, so far, no one who is urging president biden to do that has explained how we can be certain that the most unpredictable russian leader of the nuclear age would not go nuclear. tom nichols will join us next, his latest piece from the atlantic is about the risk of trying to impose a no fly zone in ukraine. and the agonies we will all witness without a no fly zone in ukraine.

Much more authority than i can. closing the skies means air combat with russian soldiers. that is escalation. that puts many, many more millions of people into danger. and so this is tough stuff, but at least we have a commander in chief that reveres our allies and respects the wisdom of our wonderful military leaders. >> general mccaffrey, i'm curious of your response. it's heartbreaking when you hear people are out here in danger. i think everyone understands when we have these reports, the type of danger the people we're speaking with are in. and if there's anything more you want to say abo...

A senior u.s. defense official says ukrainians have pushed russian forces back on the east of kyiv and fred obviously talking in that piece specifically about the success of a group that few people thought would be fully prepared. ukrainian air force. you are not surprised at all by this performance and i know you trained with the ukrainian military. you've also observed exercises with russian forces. so how do you think ukraine is doing this? >> i had a smile when fred mentioned the clear sky exercises. that's really a partnership, allied partner exercise that's conducted by the air forces in...