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But where is some of that coming from? >> well, "the new york times'" johnson martin had a great piece in "the new york times" that had been wildly quoted. great in terms of it's ais what. is that he says that the elders really see liabilities in this shutdown for the people who are promoting it. meaning that there was a closed-door meeting and that -- >> among republican senators. >> yes, among republican senators who were beating up on ted cruz. and there were anonymous quotes coming out of that, saying that they were questioning ted cruz as to where the end game is. so once that is on the t...