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Than he does. i think he really has -- he does have more power with the base. i remember -- >> why is he scared of them, right? >> i remember when he turned against fox news, and fox news was very anti-trump in the beginning. and he bent them to his will. and they thought that they were more powerful than him, and they learned the hard way that they weren't. >> yeah. >> i don't know why he doesn't remember that lesson that he really shouldn't have caved to them because in the beginning, i don't even think this is what he wanted. i think he ultimately caved because he felt like he was losing hi...

Sure does indicate coordination, collaboration, whatever. the other thing, and of course are trump's public statements at the time, contemporaneously. i recall at a rally speech he made, i think it was in june of '16, in which he alluded to some big revelation that was going to come out very soon, which didn't happen. >> yeah. >> and, you know, you start to put these pieces together. so today was a big deal as you said. >> let me read some of the indictment. it will help clear up something of t -- some of the things you said. part of it says during the time frame of june and july of 2016, roge...

Robert mueller's indictment of longtime trump ally roger stone is a big deal. mueller charges the president's longtime ally, a man he's known since the 1970s sought stolen e-mails from wikileaks, e-mails damaging to then-candidate trump's opponents, at the direction of senior trump campaign officials. let's bring in now james clapper. he is a former director of national intelligence under president obama. good evening, director. so good to have you on. >> thanks, don. >> what do you see in this indictment? is this collusion? is it obstruction? what is it? >> well, i read it over carefully a co...

The underlying crime of collusion. >> we know that don junior had that trump tower meeting in june of 2016. we know that he also exchanged messages with the wikileaks twitter account. do you think there's more here? >> well, we also know that don junior has changed his account as to what happened on that trump tower meeting. again, the pattern here of so many people from general flynn to donald trump jr. to paul manafort to jared kushner, who have had to change their accounts as it related to dealing with the russians shows a consciousness of guilty. if there was an innocent explanation, they ...

In your last segment on discussing the phraseology about, you know, senior campaign official and who that might be, i think that's deliberate on mueller's part. that's going to -- whoever that is, that's going to come up in a subsequent indictment, and i think there are more to come. mueller's done, you know, the building-block approach here, and today was another big brick in the wall. that's probably not a good metaphor, i guess, today, but against the president. what it means is, you know, confirmation. this was a shoe we all knew what's going to drop, and it finally did. >> yeah. >> and th...