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>> didn't we talk at the beginning of the food about food stamps and people going hungry. there is attention there. i don't think you can say that food is too cheap. >> they're not mutually exclusive. we can do both. it's not as if there are two goals and they can't be reached mul simultaneously. >> you can certainly work on worker safety and sourcing and all this kind of stuff. but i don't think saying that food is too cheap is the right way. >> it is too cheap. >> but this is the constant challenge, right? this is the challenge of obesity being connected to poverty in this country. and that ...