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were coming in to make a citizens arrest. >> hearing number four, the attack on the capitol. >> mika, we've been talking about it this week, it's been a theme of violence in american politics. one side promoting violence, that is, of course, the trump wing of the republican party, where there's a consequence starting in 2015 where donald trump in 2016 was saying beat up protesters. i remember the time when they used to go out an a stretcher. >> right. >> if you beat them up, i'll pay for your defense. praising a member of a republican member of congress. for being up a reporter for a...

Everything we've heard since columbine, thrown out the window, and he's just making excuses. lying about locked doors. lying about everything else. because he says he doesn't want his officers to get hurt. while children are calling 911, while teachers are calling 911, bleeding out and dying. >> yeah, look, joe, i think there's obviously -- this has been every day that this story has proceeded, the more we've learned about it the worse it gets in terms of institutional failure and human failure. and, you know, these are high-stress, high-pressure situation. and so, in many cases, the response ...

Even if they had been saved a few minutes earlier, perhaps they could have survived. what happens next here? will there be disciplinary action, and what recourse do the parents have? are there law automatics in the offing? >> well, certainly, lawsuits. the d.a. has enlisted a expert. to try to determine how many kids, certainly, we know from the teacher eva morales that they were alive and perhaps could have -- could still be alive, if it had not been for this response. if that's the case, other charges for the incident commander, meet arrendondo. and there are some texas statutes that i could...

But it sure sounds to me, listening to some of the testimony of mccraw, some of the charges have not been ruled out and that's highly unusual. because typically to something you said before, jon, examining the shootings and there are mistakes made from time to time and no response is perfect. but to actually charge somebody for the behavior and decisions they made, that would be failure significant. i don't think that's ruled out yet. nobody has ruled that out to us. that's what we really need to watch. >> tom, you mentioned the teacher killed, eva morales, she actually called her husband who ...

Ahead. also ahead in the 8:00 a.m. hour, we're going to speak with "the washington post's" bob woodward. there was another hearing yesterday. this one in texas that made a lot of news as well. it was over the police response to the uvalde school shooting where state senators heard new details about the botched response. the state department of safety called that response, quote, an abject failure. nbc news national correspondent gabe gutierrez has the very latest. >> reporter: these still images reviewed from the "austin american-statesman" but not nbc news shows officers inside with ballist...