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Program make them job training programs, not a place you go and read a computer screen about low wage jobs. there's a lot of ways to make these programs work a lot better but we're not addressing it. there's an idea we need to cut, cut, cut and cut. unfortunately what we're doing, we're not creating the atmosphere for people to actually become more productive. i think that's the argument, the change, how do you make people more productive, give back to society. >> there's a narrative, a sense somehow people who aren't working need to be punished in some way because they have done something wro...

Is somewhat similar in that both men were accused of being socialists, which i think is highly -- trying to address the inequality. one thing interesting in the south african contest, true socialism in south africa was socialism for white people. that's essentially what apartheid was. in fact, they nationalized businesses that were predominantly white employeed. that's true communist. there's your communism. i think what's really important here is that we see opponents to some of the programs we need to help lift people out of poverty actually using coded racial terms, images, language in orde...

You need to come up with a way to structure these programs so they support people in need and continue to support them as they are low wage workers so they can climb out of poverty. >> as a farm bill, everybody knows, deals with it knows the farm bill is designed for takers, hundreds of billions of weight. the takers are not people on food stamps but giant agri businesses. one example, the sugar industry. one of the most unhealthy things we do gets a massive subsidy. not competitive global market. this farm bill distorts the market, puts it in the hand of wealthy poem. they are the big takers....