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U.s. invaded afghanistan first taking out the taliban government that had sheltered bin laden and that he had propped up and then pinning al qaeda and some thought bin laden, himself, in the mountainous caves of tora bora. but bin laden was said to have escaped. that time across the border into pakistan. and then we started the war in iraq. now we have 9/11, nearly 3,000 lives, and we've had two wars in which we've now lost more than 6,000 american lives. what we did not have all this time was osama bin laden and so they started to play him down. >> you know, again, i don't know where es. i --...

The u.s. was being careful to avoid getting drawn into a hot war in afghanistan with the soviets so even though we gave that training and those weapons to bin laden in afghanistan in the 80's, we never really got it to him all that directly. instead we used a middle man. who do you think we used as a middle man? we used the pakistani intelligence service as the middle man when we wanted to arm bin laden. the whole post 9/11 idea of waging a war on terrorism was to go after terrorists themselves, right? but also go after their sponsors. you go after the countries that sponsor terrorist groups a...

The 80's, we never really got it to him all that directly. instead we used a middle man. who do you think we used as a middle man? we used the pakistani intelligence service as the middle man when we wanted to arm bin laden. the whole post 9/11 idea of waging a war on terrorism was to go after terrorists themselves, right? but also go after their sponsors. you go after the countries that sponsor terrorist groups and fund them. iraq never did that. that was a red herring. that was a distraction from fighting terrorism. but afghanistan in its own way was a hard case, too. because osama bin laden...

The u.s. was being careful to avoid getting drawn into a hot war in afghanistan with the soviets so even though we gave that training and those weapons to bin laden in afghanistan in the 80's, we never really got it to him all that directly. instead we used a middle man. who do you think we used as a middle man? we used the pakistani intelligence service as the middle man when we wanted to arm bin laden. the whole post 9/11 idea of waging a war on terrorism was to go after terrorists themselves, right? but also go after their sponsors. you go after the countries that sponsor terrorist groups a...