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. america is in the midst of a five-year commemoration of the 150th anniversary of the civil war. consider the turning point of that war the battle of gettysburg. it remains a defining moment in this country's history. with us to talk about it, msnbc contributor mike barnicle, he was there, pulitzer prize historian john meacham and he was cheering for lee and best selling author and presidential historian doris kearns goodwin. john meecham, why did gettysburg matter so much? >> it turned lee's army back. it ended the invasion of the north and was the turning point of the war. and at that poi...

So much? >> it turned lee's army back, ended the invasion of the north and was the turning point of the war. at that point, though it was going to be difficult and bloody and the wilderness campaign and many, many lives would be lost, in historical perspective that was the end -- the beginning of the end as churchhill might say of the war. and my sense, too, it resonates not only because of what happened there militarily in 1963 but because of the words spoken there. what abraham lincoln did at that battlefield was to redefine the country, rededicate it as he put it, to a jeffersonian principl...