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the moskva. is it is not just the industrial might, it is what exists today and all of that augered very well for a sudden clarification in the russian mind. but here is the problem. the problem of a vladimir putin. he's so personally invested, so deeply angry. and he still has other weapons at his disposal. chemical companies, god forbid nuclear weapons. i think the latter extremely unlikely, the former not out of the range of the imagine. and he could use cyber as a very significant capability. so, you're showing his face now. he's an angry, bitter, frustrated man who is personally invested in that. i'm not sure he's toting up the score in industrial capability and budgets. but we need to do everything that we can to make it clear to him he cannot win this foot race. >> a portion of our conversation earlier this morning with

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