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Have been manipulated in such a way that they won't actually represent the will of the people, that we continue to have legislators and elective leaders, who necessarily follow the authoritarian's guide, whether or not they have their own views or policy positions that might put them at odds with the. it does feel like we're racing down that path faster than i could have thought. >> one of the things that i think i understood from the people i learned from, living or dead, is that undergoing all these lessons, have to be values. we will not be saved by -- we will not be saved by, the system as...

Were picturing something like what happened on january 6th. >> yeah, the last several lessons in the book are all about that. i mean, the book is meant to be a guide starting with lesson one, and moving through to the end, be as courageous as you can. it's also meant to chart a trajectory towards authoritarianism and violence. we got through those 20 steps pretty quickly. by january 6th of this year at the very latest, you see what the alternative to democracy is. we see what mob rule looks like, and we see how that isn't the alternative. it's not that if we lose democracy, we kind of go on wi...

Authoritarianism and violence. we got through those steps pretty quickly. by january 6th of this year at the very latest, you see what the alternative to democracy is. we see what mob rule looks like, and we see how that isn't the alternative. it's not that if we lose democracy, we kind of go on with our lives. if we lose democracy we have that kind of image, that sort of thing becomes normal. >> also the prospect that we continue to on paper have the same institutions that we believe are the pillars of our democracy, but they become meaningless institutions. we continue to have elections but ...