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Somehow, he had forgiven that debt or he was willing to hear him out in exchange for whatever information that manafort had. >> i want to be really clear to hang a light on something you said there. because the manafort story is he was trying to collect debts owed to him. your point is that the reporting indicates he himself owed lots of money, and that this oligarch had apparently initiated legal proceedings in the cayman islands that he stole $19 million from him. it's important folks keep the valance of that in their heads. it makes more sense if he's working off a debt rather than trying t...

Proceedings in the cayman islands that he stole $faen 19 million from him. it's important folks keep the valance of that in their heads. it makes more sense if he's working off a debt rather than trying to collect it. the other thing i wanted to ask about the scope of these document asks that are coming from mueller, you've got manafort, but how worried are the folk in the white house about getting all of these documents together? and what they themselves might learn when they start going through them? >> one challenge, of course, is that manafort -- or mueller is asking for a significant numb...

Town hall. two weeks ago you were getting your head chopped off over health care, now it's on this. the timing of all of this, this is when incumbents decide whether to run again or challengers decide whether to run or not. boy, it's probably a good time to be a democrat and a bad time to be a republican. >> it's not very encouraging. the town halls have been attracting probably the most partisan and motivated democrats, some of the numbers in your poll suggest that actually the comey firing may not have the political impact that a lot of people think, one clip you didn't have, which i thought...

President, he realize zed it's not that easy. on the bright side, he's learning, listening and learning. >> yep. it's a leader's job to sort out complexity and explain it to, in this case, the country and the world. it's our job as journalists to take very complicated situations and present them in ways that our listeners or readers can understand them. but, what's a little difficult in this situation and what has been hard for journalists is as the president's learning curve takes effect, things change from day-to-day. we are often caught in a situation where we don't know what he's saying to...

Because these committees are not controlled by democrats and there is a clear partisan valance in how they're approaching it, how much control does he have or the minority of the committee have to steer this investigation? >> well, they have a limited number of cards to play but relatively powerful ones. we've seen thus far that speaker ryan and senate majority leader mitch mcconnell have resisted calls for an investigations, the formation of a select committee or a bipartisan commission by saying no, no, there's an ongoing investigation. let's let that happen instead of having these more robu...