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Of the two thought it was hurting her in advance of what looks now like a very certain 2020 presidential bid. >> chris, why do it? this is a guy that won't even show his taxes. that doesn't apologize for anything. why just not ignore it and use it as, you know, obviously i guess she's going to run, right? that's why she's doing it. >> yeah. >> why use it in that fashion? why should i take a dna test, why should i show you my heritage when you won't show me your tax returns? why should i when you won't release your college records? >> what you outlined is what i would describe broadly speaking ...

Heritage when you won't show me your tax returns? why should i when you won't release your college records? >> what you outlined is what i would describe broadly speaking as an avenatti argument, essentially saying you need to fight donald trump on his own terms. michael avenatti who wants to run for president in 2020 as a democrat, too. warren is playing by an older playbook, certainly. one that is more conventional which is you get your negatives, you get out in front of your negatives. >> got it. >> you try define them. i know we focus on how this is about trump. he's the one calling her na...