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Enfrenched in their position and refuse to move. >> juan: it's hard to have an honest conversation. that's what eric and i are having a difficult time with. i don't think there is any question that susan g. komen people know they screwed up badly and they have been hurt. i don't think there is any question if you look at the blount amendment in the senate they were trying to say you know what? a body, not just -- anybody who has a conscientious objection to contraception doesn't have to provide -- that's just crazy. >> eric: that was down the road. that wasn't the first shot. that was further ...