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Made himself. and so this has to be cutting him today because he does not like anything to suggest -- >> and the question is does it matter. if you don't like trump, you say i knew this all along. he is a fraud, it is a myth. he ha he was born on third base. if you like donald trump, you beat up the "times," does it matter. >> so there is nothing that we can say that would do justice to the 13,000 word piece. but here is why it matters. this provides more ammunition should democrats take over one or both chambers of congress to try to go after his tax returns which they can. and i think more i...

Advancing their own personal agenda, that's probably true, and he said there is no basis for invoking the 25th amendment, so apparently the report said he got called into john kelly's office and that produced denial number two which was more specific i never pursued or authorized recording the president and any suggestion that i would ever advance for the removal of the president -- advocate for the removal of the president is absolutely false. that's evolved. >> it has. i think at the end of the day, you have new york times now coming out and saying look even though you have denied this and w...

Agenda, that's probably true, and he said there is no basis for invoking the 25th amendment, so apparently the report said he got called into john kelly's office and that produced denial number two which was more specific i never pursued or authorized recording the president and any suggestion that i would ever advance for the removal of the president -- advocate for the removal of the president is absolutely false. that's evolved. >> it has. i think at the end of the day, you have new york times now coming out and saying look even though you have denied this and we put your denial in the piec...

Michael: said you are doing a really bad job. i know i am not paying you but you can't make things. there is more to this story. >> greg: dino, i want to stick to the cnn thing. cnn said larry davis didn't -- lanny davis didn't make comment. i am quoting glenn greenwald. he is right. cnn says lanny davis refused to comment so either cnn lied to its audience about davis or davis is lying now. >> dana: over there -- they were trying to protect him at the time. that's five people disagree with using background sources. in a situation like this, you are dealing with people's lives. future judicial...

President trump has repeatedly said there's no collusion and labelled the investigation a witch hunt. so now the uncomfortable position, katelyn owens is in. she's a reporter for axios. reporters don't give up their background sources. we don't know and can't say whether these are the same person. a little complicated, isn't it? >> it is. let's talk about this in two different things. so we have our report of mueller and the subpoena and who he is discussing -- >> shepard: that was the interesting part of that. who he wanted to know details about. >> right. >> shepard: tell me about that. >> s...