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I think it would be to the president's advantage to have people testify who could exculpate him. >> douglas, what's your take on the witness list from the gop? >> from the gop, it's not going the happen. hunt rer biden isn't going to magically appear in washington, d.c. these are just people trying to get press advantage. trying to lean forward for their side. if mulvaney in my mind and bolton, it would be wonderful to hear from them. none of this on either side is going to happen before christmas. we know what's going to happen. it's about going into the senate. then chief justice roberts is ...

Cycles, two years each, i balanced the budget every time. i mean, that's either true or false. >> well, what he did do was technically bring it into balance. he borrowed $4.4 billion. he engaged in accounting shifts. he advanced payments on taxes. he delayed paying bills and he pushed a bag load of spending down to local governments. but each and every year he was governor we ran deficits and they kept accruing each and every term. we were in a deficit position from 2003 on, long before the recession. >> arnie carlson, great to have you with us tonight. thank you for speaking up. >> always a p...

Balanced the budget every time. i mean, that's either true or false. >> well, what he did do was technically bring it into balance. he borrowed $4.4 billion. he engaged in accounting shifts. he advanced payments on taxes. he delayed paying bills and he pushed a bag load of spending down to local governments. but each and every year he was governor we ran deficits and they kept accruing each and every term. we were in a deficit position from 2003 on, long before the recession. >> arnie carlson, great to have you with us tonight. thank you for speaking up. >> always a pleasure. >> thank you. don...