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Wilderness. wins in '06, losing the gavel in '10, comes back years later. they don't have any other figure to trust on the big picture strategy other than speaker pa pelosi. >> great point. carol, to your bailiwick, is that something they can still have and hold and bring out later? >> absolutely, brian. they did even though it was 12 pages of legal arguments, they avoided that assertion which has to be formally made by the president. in a way, that is just putting down the court the ultimate reckoning and the fight. if you're going to assert privilege and someone is going to dispute it, then ...

Ability to go after everyone accused of collusion. so how do you look at the way he's gone after manafort? >> i think the way he's gone after manafort is by focusing on state crimes committed in new york. he's focused on residential mortgage fraud, very different from bank fraud. i think that's part of his strategy for getting around the double jeopardy issues. and the other crimes that he has alleged. the falsification of records. again, a classic state crime. so that takes this and puts it in his bailiwick that gives him a much better chance of succeeding. >> so you almost wonder, okay, all ...

Attempting to destroy mueller. impeachment is the only answer. she's talking impeachment. nadler is i guess trying to say to the american public, this is not a politically motivated operation he's running here? >> congressman nadler's motivation is highly political but he's smart enough with his colleague, adam schiff that runs the house intelligence committee to have said publicly impeachment is off the table until there's broad bipartisan support for it. they're not crazy. they may want to drive him nuts. if they start impeachment and there's not broad bipartisan support for it, it will expl...

Leading until trump came along and just began to dominate everything in that party. >> you're so right. that's the way it felt in real time. jon meacham, let's speak to your bailiwick, does history give us any guide about the type of democrat who should be investing in bumper stickers? is it, as some of head, the celebrity? it is the big populist? is it the kind of earnest unifying? >> i think it's a really interesting question whether any of those standards really apply in an age where donald trump is president. have all the traditional understandings of how we handicap these races gone away?...

Can't keep staffers. had trouble hiring a campaign manager. so we have an early scandal possibly brewing out there. but i suspect we might see a replay of what the republicans went through where they had a candidate of the week who dominated the ratings and was leading until trump came along and just began to dominate everything in that party. >> you're so right. that's the way it felt in real time. jon meacham, let's speak to your bailiwick, does history give us any indication? is it the celebrity? it is the big populist? is it the earnest unifier? >> i think it's a really interesting questio...