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Demonstrates how daunting a task it is to protect against attacks, and, really, the balancing test that has to go on in society about allowing access, the access we all want, but also striving to provide as much security as possible. >> yeah. robert, same to you. i mean, what's your sense of it? are you feeling less secure today? >> i don't know if i'm feeling less secure but i am feeling, there's no way we can be 100% -- safe if you will. feeling safe or secure. when you go a mall, a grocery store, a baseball stadium, you're vulnerable. on the amtrak train up to new york, you're vulnerable. t...

Fantastic, great ideas all of them, but to call the police, what you're doing is saying to all patrons of that business, you come here, and you risk, whoa, one beer maybe i'll call the cops if you have one, two, three, maybe call him then. it's the kiss of death for the business to do that kind of thing and the bar owner was perfectly within his right. >> megyn: you're on the bar owner's side. okay, but mark, if she hadn't called the cops and the guy hits and hurts somebody while drunk driving his car, twyla and her boss, the bar, would have opinibeen in a whole lot o trouble. >> of course, an...

Right, in which the balancing test. the balancing interest is can you capture them and is there going to be undue harm? will it be too hard? you can malk a scenario in which the test that is laid out in the white paper leads do you the conclusion that under that balancing test you strike it. >> i think -- >> you want to attack the test. but before you start to say that these things are likely to happen, if you had a pramg like this going on -- >> i didn't say exactly. >> even impropable. the key thing to do is not worry about imagining but worry about demonstrated illustrations of abuse and th...

Of americans. we're talking about making decisions based on secret intelligence. and we see in this memo that some of the definitions are a bit more elastic and open to interpretation than the administration has publicly let on. >> mike, on the three part, so it has to be eminent risk. and you just described the broader concept of eminence, which is the phrase in there. >> yes. >> and that there can't be a capture that we're killing somebody because they can't be captured. there is also an elaboration on that which it seems to me seems to be quite a wide definition. i'm fascinated by the fact ...

And you just described the broader concept of eminence, which is the phrase in there. >> yes. >> and that there can't be a capture that we're killing somebody because they can't be captured. there is also an elaboration on that which it seems to me seems to be quite a wide definition. i'm fascinated by the fact that we don't really capture terrorist suspects in yemen and somali and pakistan and these other places where we know drones, american drone strikes have killed people. people get killed there. they don't get captured. the definition for why a capture is impractical always seems to be v...