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It's one of multiple breakaway in conflicts within the european footprint. it is another place where russia has stoked -- they're attempting to give back terrain where they say so-called russian speakers are still part of the population. and truthfully, beyond just the fact they're even considering going as far west as that which i agree with you, they're not going to be able to do, certainly not with the forces or capability of the leadership they currently have, but it sends a signal to other nato nations. especially poland, the baltic countries that also have people who speak russian within...

Discussed for several decades and russia mentioned a demand for new security architecture, what we have seenin security architecture, what we have seen in the context of russian aggression, it is consolidation of the existing alliance giving it a new lease of life to protect the member states rather than consider any sort of new arrangement, having said that, some countries in the us -- eu said that, some countries in the us —— eu are looking to provide a greater defence component, and france has been and president macron has been calling for this for a long time. having said that, the nat...

They're very pragmatic. they're raising the stakes. but for vladimir putin, who has written an article suggesting that historically ukraine and russia are one nation, who has also said it is absolutely unacceptable for nato to be putting more military forces into the former soviet space, and who says that if nato were to offer ukraine membership, that would be a fundamental threat to russia's security. he's notjoking. he's not playing poker. this is a very strong and real feeling in russia, is it not? but the next argument from their side will be baltic countries, poland, czech, slovak, hungar...

Russian forces and equipment and, you know, i don't have access to the intelligence about what that equipment is, but that puts then the nato allies in some greater danger. and we know that vladimir putin will not stop with ukraine. and latvia, lithuania, and estonia, the baltic countries that are nato members, they used to be part of the soviet union. vladimir putin has this idea that he should have a sphere of influence that starts, at least, with the former soviet union. so, again, this is why it's so important to stop him in ukraine. because if he gets his way with ukraine, and that doesn'...

He's not playing poker. this is a very strong and real feeling in russia, is it not? but the next argument from their side will be baltic countries, poland, czech, slovak, hungarian. they will remind you about the warsaw agreement and probably the next target will be berlin wall. the berlin wall was falling, and we will have a new appetiser in russian minds about western berlin and east berlin. do you think it was a mistake, if you reflect on ukraine's recent history, for ukraine to decide that it was going to make it a key strategic objective to become a nato member? first of all, nato doesn'...