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About that because telling the truth to prosecutors about that, having that come out in his court case would ruin the chance of trump giving him a get out of jail free card. now, that is a -- that is eye-opening if that's why manafort lied, but how trump reacts to it now that manafort has been caught in that lie is going to be all the more fascinating. >> i heard chairman schiff say that. i have to say, it's the only thing i've heard where i can see the logic to it. it's like, okay, that makes sense to me. i get that. but, boy, it is -- it is so strange to try to figure out from this distance ...

Eye-opening if that's why manafort lied, but how trump reacts to it now that manafort has been caught in that lie is going to be all the more fascinating. >> i heard chairman schiff say that. i have to say, it's the only thing i've heard where i can see the logic to it. it's like, okay, that makes sense to me. i get that. but, boy, it is -- it is so strange to try to figure out from this distance as we watch it. >> well, yeah. and paul manafort just as a human being, his -- >> yes. >> the drama of his life -- >> yeah. >> is about to get very, very dark. what barb macquaid was just explaining a...