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Right, a lot of this is about turning the finger against the investigators. again like bill clinton did. ken starr was the issue not bill clinton that he wanted americans to focus on. just as today donald trump and donald trump jr. want to focus on the conduct of the fbi and robert mueller rather than the president. as you pointed out, we didn't hear a lot of defense of the president and the things that he was accused of on wednesday. >> talk about base pressure though. john boehner and then paul ryan did what they could to keep the benghazi conspiracy theorists from like hijacking all these c...

Has been thrown around. i do think that number will get reduced. i do think there will be some funding for it, which will anger the democratic base. >> there will be an argument about what you call it. is it funding for the wall, is it border security. but i think the base pressure on the president has been pretty unrelenting, whether it's ja nancy pelosi's newest funding propos proposal. what are you hearing from fellow republicans? do they feel they're going to have to make some movement? is there any behind the scenes effort to figure out how to end this shutdown sooner rather than later? >...

>> yeah, i don't think they trust him one whit. i think they snookered him. i think they put him in a box on this and he tripped up himself and the republicans. i think -- chuck and nancy did not just fall off the turnip truck. they know exactly what they are dealing with. and they are trying to figure out ways to, first of all, increase the divisions within the republican party, and boy did they succeed in doing that today. and secondly, see if there are ways, big ways, little ways in which they can get something that they want. if they get dreamers, these people would be heroes. they control...

Trust him one whit. i think they snookered him. i think they put him in a box on this and he tripped up himself and the republicans. i think -- chuck and nancy did not just fall off the turnip truck. they know exactly what they are dealing with. and they are trying to figure out ways to, first of all, increase the divisions within the republican party, and boy did they succeed in doing that today. and secondly, see if there are ways, big ways, little ways in which they can get something that they want. if they get dreamers, these people would be heroes. they control nothing and they would save...

Bynum. there are all kinds of opportunities on infrastructure, on trade on, health. but it has to be bipartisan. and he's right. i think we're making more progress, not as much as i think we would like but we're making some progress on the senate side. i haven't seen any indication that there's that need for bipartisanship. >> both of you are bipartisan senators, in hindsight, it is easier to be on the outside to say this is how you fix this problem. gridlock is only going to get worse even if it incrementally gets better for a few minutes at a time. and yet if i speak to all one hunt the curr...