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It's really unclear whether or not -- if they actually do make that referral, which would be pretty remarkable, whether any justice department can see a former president as criminally culpable. but it seems like that is where they are headed. >> kerry, one of the things that, you know, we heard so much coming out of this last year was realization that so many of the things that we assume about our democracy are really just norms. they are not codified in law. has there been progress or much to actually codify those norms and make them more sort of bedrock laws in this country? >> i think our d...

Going to focus on those people. it's an open question. if you listen to liz cheney, she's clearly trying to build a case for going after the former president, for going after donald trump in a criminal way. it's really unclear whether or not -- if they actually do make that referral, which would be pretty remarkable, whether any justice department can see a former president as criminally culpable. but it seems like that is where they are headed. >> kerry, one of the things that, you know, we heard so much coming out of this last year was realization that so many of the things that we assume ab...

Nation's environmental protection agency, lisa jackson. administrator jackson. thank you for being here. >> that's a great intro. i'm not richard nixon. >> you don't look a thing like him. it seems impossible that one of the republican legislative legacies of the century is the epa, because it seems that environmental protection has been an issue on which there is a spark partisan divide. is that fair? >> yes. the fundamental bedrock laws of our country. and i loved -- i actually learned a new phrase, above partisanship. and i keep saying, i said that when i took office as administrator. the e...

Protection agency, lisa jackson. administrator jackson. thank you for being here. >> that's a great intro. i'm not richard nixon. >> you don't look a thing like him. it seems impossible that one of the republican legislative legacies of the century is the epa, because it seems that environmental protection has been an issue on which there is a spark partisan divide. is that fair? >> yes. the fundamental bedrock laws of our country. and i loved -- i actually learned a new phrase, above partisanship. and i keep saying, i said that when i took office as administrator. the environment has always b...

It seems impossible that one of the republican legislative legacies of the century is the epa, because it seems that environmental protection has been an issue on which there is a spark partisan divide. is that fair? >> yes. i absolutely do. i think it's unprecedented the level of attack we're seeing not only on the agency but on the clean air act or clean water act. the fundamental bedrock laws of our country. and i loved -- i actually learned a new phrase, above partisanship. and i keep saying, i said that when i took office as administrator. the environment has always been nonpartisan, abov...